Putin has just discovered the scale of his latest miscalculation

The Telegraph ^

[adorno]

“Not even close. China can't even copy correctly the fifth generation from the U.S. “

Still true.

The Chinese 6th gen fighters will be better than Sweden's.

The Chinese aren't even working on it. But, once Sweden and the U.S. come out with the sixth generation, China will be going bull blast to get its hands on it, and then they can claim to be so innovative. ;)

Bank on it.

If YOU bank on it, you'll be broke in no time.

I don't see Sweden matching the Chinese in anything.

Sweden is already two generations ahead of China in jet fighter technology.

[SmokingJoe]

“The Chinese aren't even working on it. “

You bet they are.
They have the resources, the engineers and the money and determination to do it.

“but, once Sweden and the U.S. come out with the sixth generation, China will be going bull blast to get its hands on it, and then they can claim to be so innovative. ;) “

Sweden is not America.
Don't even try and equate their work in advanced technologies. Again China will crush Sweden in any technological contest.

[SmokingJoe]

“Sweden is already two generations ahead of China in jet fighter technology. “

You wanna pit the latest Swedish fighter against the latest fighter from China?
I'm sure the Chinese wouldn't mind that.

[adorno]

China dominates the list of the world's longest bridges, showcasing advanced engineering in scale, design, and resilience.

Okay, I'll give you that. China has the longest and some of the strongest bridges around.

But, using engineering techniques which are as old as the great wall of China. Other countries don't have a need for long or bridges so strong, So, China can keep those records because nobody is coming after them. But, I wonder if they could withstand a MOAB? ;)

All of them government projects.

China also builds some airliners...

China does build its own airliners. Specifically, COMAC (Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China) is the state-owned aerospace manufacturer responsible for producing commercial aircraft like the C919 and ARJ21. While the C919 is designed to compete with Airbus and Boeing narrow-body aircraft, it still relies on some foreign technology and components, including engines

Did you happen to catch that part in highlight? Chuckle..

Even Somalia could do that, if they were into so much propaganda as China.

[adorno]

“Sweden is already two generations ahead of China in jet fighter technology. “

Can't be denied.

You wanna pit the latest Swedish fighter against the latest fighter from China?

China's latest fighter, the J-20

The capabilities of the J-20 are as advertised by the Chinese, and we know the Chinese lie, a lot. Even if it's got stealth technology, it's not as stealthy as what is found in the U.S. with the F-35 and F-22. If it can be found by radar, it's a loser almost immediately against the F-35 and F-22. And the Swedish fighter is claimed to have superior tech when it comes to avionics and AI and other high-tech, which are superior to that in the J-20. With modern fighter jet technology, if I can see you first, you lose and there is no way you can survive.

I'm sure the Chinese wouldn't mind that.

I'm sure the Swedish wouldn't mind taking on that test or fight.

The Chinese are supposedly doing sixth generation jet research, but the U.S. and Sweden can demonstrate their actual flying fighters. The test-version of the F-47 sixth generation fighter jet, has been flying since 2020 (it's know as he F-XX (later to be renamed the F-47). The Swedish and others are way into development of their own sixth generation fighters.

China may soon have sixth generation aircraft too, but completion of theirs is dependent on how much of the technology they can steal and copy from the American sixth generation jets. Where do you think they stole and copied stealth technology from? America is the 'research departmentn' for the Chinese for most of it's tech.

Remember that China's capabilities in fighter jets, is mostly what they advertise, and not real verifiable capabilities.

Even what the Chinese have as fifth generation fighters is very lacking in stealthiness, and if they can be caught in radar, they are dead immediately. Not so for the F-22 and F-35. Sweden has better stealthiness, since they have access to the tech found on the F-35. The F-22 is not for sale or for sharing with anybody, and its technology is of the highest degree of secrecy. I'm pretty sure the Chinese are looking to get a hold of that technology, but they'd have to sneak into a base where they're housed and fly off with one.

[adorno]

“The Chinese aren't even working on it. “

Okay, hey are, but are mostly working on stealing the technology.

You bet they are.
They have the resources, the engineers and the money and determination to do it.

Exactly the same type of people they needed to steal and copy the tech, and then produce virtual twins of the products they stole the tech from. Shameless Chinese.

“but, once Sweden and the U.S. come out with the sixth generation, China will be going bull blast to get its hands on it, and then they can claim to be so innovative. ;) “

Woah! I had no idea the Chinese were such thieves. ;)

Sweden is not America.

Allies, which means they share a lot of technology.

Don't even try and equate their work in advanced technologies.

A lot of what America produces and a lot of the tech used, is shared, which is why Sweden is so advanced. We also get some of the European stuff which might be valuable to the U.S. Allies; ever hear of that?

Again China will crush Sweden in any technological contest.

The Swedish fifth generation jets have true stealth tech, while the Chinese are struggling to copy what they've stolen and can't even get it right. Plus the avionics and other tech of the Swedish jets, is superior to what the Chinese tried to copy but still got wrong. Better engineers is the solution. ;)

[adorno]

“In any case, you can bet that the tech behind that ‘Chinese’ robot was also stolen. “

You need to learn that facts can't be denied, which means that the above statement is a fact. Nope. Developed by hard working, innovative Chinese engineers.

Innovation with the Chinese is as rare as unicorns.

[adorno]

“BTW, did you know that there are already EVs that can automatically recharge themselves? And can park themselves and can answer the call and go to its ‘master’ when the owner wants to go somewhere?

Woah! Robotic cars. What will humans think of next?

Cars that can drive themselves are also robotic and not really new tech, but neither is a robot that can change its own battery. “

It gets better and better with each new statement of fact.

Yes.Chinese EV’s from BYD etc can do all that.

So, did China develop any of the tech for autonomy in cars? Or did they copy, as they do with every other tech? I'm sure you know the real answer to that but won't admit it.

[SmokingJoe]

“So, did China develop any of the tech for autonomy in cars? Or did they copy, as they do with every other tech? I'm sure you know the real answer to that but won't admit it.”

The Chinese EV companies like BYD (which has just overtaken Tesla as the biggest EV company on the planet) developed self driving cars/autonomy same time as Tesla and Waymo were.
This is all pretty new. The Chinese work much harder and are far more innovative than Europeans seem to think.

[SmokingJoe]

““In any case, you can bet that the tech behind that ‘Chinese’ robot was also stolen. “

Nope.

[SmokingJoe]

“Exactly the same type of people they needed to steal and copy the tech, and then produce virtual twins of the products they stole the tech from. Shameless Chinese.”

Shameless Europeans you mean?
Same Europeans who continue to accuse the Chinese of stealing technology even as the Chinese out innovate and outperform Europeans in deep space, Mars, The Moon, hi tech, electronics, etc etc.
Meanwhile, The Europeans themselves continue to steal other people's technologies unabated.

“A lot of what America produces and a lot of the tech used, is shared, which is why Sweden is so advanced.”

Sweden is not as advanced as China in hi tech, space, solar panels, consumer electronics etc.
Even Volvo cars is owned by the Chinese and has been doing much better since the Chinese bought it, from Chinese input.

[adorno]

“Exactly the same type of people they needed to steal and copy the tech, and then produce virtual twins of the products they stole the tech from. Shameless Chinese.”

100% the truth!

Shameless Europeans you mean?

Nope! Shameless Chinese. And you're shameless too when you refuse to accept the facts.

Here it goes again:

There is strong evidence suggesting that China engages in intellectual property (IP) theft and has a significant impact on the global economy. This includes the theft of trade secrets, patents, copyrights, and trademarks. The US government estimates that Chinese IP theft costs the US economy hundreds of billions of dollars annually.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

Extent of the Problem:

China is widely considered a principal infringer of intellectual property, and its laws and regulations often put foreign companies at a disadvantage while favoring Chinese companies.

Methods of Theft:

IP theft can occur through various means, including:

Cyber espionage: Hacking into company systems to steal sensitive data and trade secrets.

Forced technology transfer: Requiring foreign companies to transfer technology to Chinese companies as a condition of doing business in China.

Counterfeiting and piracy: Producing and selling fake or unauthorized versions of legitimate products.

Talent recruitment programs: Incentivizing individuals to bring proprietary information and innovation from foreign companies to China.

Economic Impact:

US government officials estimate that Chinese IP theft costs the US economy between $225 billion and $600 billion annually, according to the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative.

Government Involvement:

There are allegations that the Chinese government is actively involved in or facilitates IP theft, either directly or through its support of state-owned enterprises.

International Efforts:

The US and other countries are working to address Chinese IP theft through international agreements like the World Trade Organization's TRIPs Agreement, as well as through bilateral and multilateral trade negotiations.

In summary, the evidence strongly suggests that China's IP theft is a serious and widespread problem with significant economic consequences for the US and other countries.

Same Europeans who continue to accuse the Chinese of stealing technology

It's not a simple accusation. It is a well-known fact that the Chinese steal and copy technology from the U.S. and Japan and S.Korea and even from the Europeans. The whole world knows about how China operates to steal and copy IP and western tech.

even as the Chinese out innovate and outperform Europeans in deep space, Mars, The Moon, hi tech, electronics, etc etc.

It's NOT Chinese innovation if all of it was stolen and copied from the U.S. and other western countries, including from the Europeans.

Meanwhile, The Europeans themselves continue to steal other people's technologies unabated.

It's not theft if the technology is shared, and if the technology is open-source, and if they're allied with those that share their technology. China is not allied with the U.S. or Japan or S.Korea or the Europeans. But China has spies all over the world, including all western countries from which they steal and copy. In fact, China itself cannot deny that, that's the only way they got to having modern technology.

Yet, it's YOU that denies the facts which the whole world is aware of.

“A lot of what America produces and a lot of the tech used, is shared, which is why Sweden is so advanced.”

Woah! Whoever said that is so smart and so well-informed. Thanks for quoting whoever that is. So much to learn from him. ;)

Sweden is not as advanced as China in hi tech, space, solar panels, consumer electronics etc.

Sweden and the rest of Europe have what they need, and without having to steal and copy the tech. China cannot innovate on their own and they depend on other countries to come up with new technology which China then steals and copies. for example, there is nothing in the Chinese fighter jets and bombers, which they did not steal and copy from the U.S.

Even Volvo cars is owned by the Chinese and has been doing much better since the Chinese bought it, from Chinese input.

Ownership does not mean that China developed the tech inside the Volvo, or that China is innovating any part of the Volvo vehicles. It's still Swedish and based in Sweden. But ownership does allow them to take Volvo tech and copy it into Chinese vehicles.

The Chinese also buy land in the U.S., but does that mean that China can do whatever it wants on that land? And much of that land is within eyesight of our military bases. Why do you think the Chinese want to be close to our bases? Hmm... perhaps for stealing an copying and trying to keep up with the U.S.?

DID YOU KNOW....

Dynamite was invented by Alfred Nobel, a Swedish chemist and engineer. He invented it in 1867 and patented it that same year. Though he developed and patented the explosive in Germany, and demonstrated it in England, his home country of Sweden is where he is credited with its invention.

But, China has influenced the world with some innovations...

But, that's in ancient history, not modern history or current times.

Ancient China is credited with several groundbreaking inventions that have shaped the modern world. Among the most notable are the compass, gunpowder, paper-making, and printing, collectively known as the "Four Great Inventions". These innovations, developed centuries ago, continue to have a profound impact on various aspects of life today.

The Chinese do have a claim to the biggest country to have adopted Marxism/communism.

Can you explain how such a massive population with supposedly some of the smartest people in the world, can be so dumb as to allow communism to rule over them? Dumbest decision ever by any country.

Which explains why the only way they can try to be modern is by stealing and copying everybody else's hard and innovative work.

Come on, Joe, stop being in such big denial and so wrong.

[SmokingJoe]

“Nope! Shameless Chinese. And you're shameless too when you refuse to accept the facts. “

Nope.
Its the Europeans who have stolen from other countries more than anyone else in recent history, while at the same time accusing the Japanese then the Chinese of stealing.
Europe colonized, plundered, and looted from Asia, Africa, South America and even America itself.
Even the Vietnam War was originally a French colonial war.
Sadly America took over that war as fighting against communism and lost 60,000 US lives, not to mention cost America over a Trillion dollars in today's money.

[SmokingJoe]

“Ownership does not mean that China developed the tech inside the Volvo, or that China is innovating any part of the Volvo vehicles.”

Actually Volvo has experienced great transformation and growth since the Chinese took over. Volvo is now a much stronger player in the global automotive market.
They were moribund before that.

“It's not theft if the technology is shared, and if the technology is open-source, and if they're allied with those that share their technology.”

Its theft though when the Europeans slither in under pretense of cooperation but still steal as much US technology as they can, something the French in particular as well as other major European countries have been doing for decades at least.

[adorno]

““In any case, you can bet that the tech behind that ‘Chinese’ robot was also stolen. “

Nope.

The facts can't be denied.

In the big inning.... err... I mean, in the beginning:

Reverse Engineering:

In its early years, BYD Auto was known for reverse engineering competitor vehicles, particularly Toyota models like the Corolla and Aygo. Design Similarities: .

Some BYD models, like the S8, were criticized for having a strong resemblance to Mercedes-Benz and Renault models

[SmokingJoe]

“In its early years, BYD Auto was known for reverse engineering competitor vehicles, particularly Toyota models like the Corolla and Aygo. Design Similarities: .”

Except today, BYD is ahead of Toyota in EVs, self driving, etc.
Same against Mercedes.

[adorno]

“So, did China develop any of the tech for autonomy in cars? Or did they copy, as they do with every other tech? I'm sure you know the real answer to that but won't admit it.”

Great question!

The Chinese EV companies like BYD (which has just overtaken Tesla as the biggest EV company on the planet) developed self driving cars/autonomy same time as Tesla and Waymo were.

Wrong answer!

Those pesky Europeans are proving you wrong again.

While there were earlier experiments and prototypes, the first autonomous vehicles that could truly be called self-driving were developed by Ernst Dickmanns and Daimler-Benz in the late 1980s. Their work, part of the European PROMETHEUS project, resulted in vehicles that could drive on public roads, including highways, without human intervention.

Early Experiments:

. General Motors had a concept for a self-driving car as early as 1939. However, these were more demonstrations of the technology than truly autonomous vehicles. Dickmanns and Daimler-Benz:

. In the late 1980s, Ernst Dickmanns, a German scientist, and Daimler-Benz, developed self-driving vehicles that could operate on public roads. Navlab:

Carnegie Mellon University's Navlab project, also started in the 1980s, developed self-driving vehicles, including the Navlab 5, which traveled from Pittsburgh to San Diego. DARPA Grand Challenge:

The DARPA Grand Challenge, starting in 2004, further spurred the development of autonomous vehicles, with Stanford and Carnegie Mellon being key participants.

NO CHINESE THERE TO BE SEEN!!!!!!!

This is all pretty new.

Research on autonomy is NOT NEW. Try a different answer, like, 'the Chinese were nowhere bo be found in that field of research'.

The Chinese work much harder at stealing and copying the technology which they then claim as their own,

and are far more innovative than Europeans seem to think.

True. They are much more 'innovative' than the Europeans or anyone else, at stealing and copying technology which China can't some up with on their own.

[adorno]

The Chinese EV companies like BYD (which has just overtaken Tesla as the biggest EV company on the planet) developed self driving cars/autonomy same time as Tesla and Waymo were.

When the Chinese market is the biggest in the world, and China accounts for 50% of EV sales, then naturally, their EVs would be the biggest sellers on the planet.

Simple math which is beyond your ability to comprehend.

Did you also know that China has the largest number of Chinese on the planet? Perhaps in he universe? Can't be beat in that category.

[SmokingJoe]

“While there were earlier experiments and prototypes, the first autonomous vehicles that could truly be called self-driving were developed by Ernst Dickmanns and Daimler-Benz in the late 1980s. Their work, part of the European PROMETHEUS project, resulted in vehicles that could drive on public roads, including highways, without human intervention. “

Cute.
But are any of them actually self driving on the roads today like Waymo, Tesla, BYD?
Nope.

[adorno]

“In its early years, BYD Auto was known for reverse engineering competitor vehicles, particularly Toyota models like the Corolla and Aygo. Design Similarities: .”

Woah! Such big copycats, those Chinese.

Except today,

If one steals the technique for growing the best apples and then has the biggest market to sell those apple to, it's a no-brainer that you'll have the most apple sales.

Duh!

BYD is ahead of Toyota in EVs, self driving, etc. Same against Mercedes.

My apple analogy above explains in very simple terms why BYD would be the best seller. Read it again. You just might learn something.

Most foreign-made cars would be too expensive for the Chinese to afford. So, it's mostly a market for domestic made cars, which would tilt the market sales numbers heavily towards Chinese made cars.. Duh!

Annual wages won't allow most Chinese the 'luxury' of a foreign made car.

The average wage in China varies significantly by region, industry, and employment sector. For urban non-private sectors, the average annual salary was around 120,700 yuan (approximately $16,860 USD) in 2023, according to Statista. However, private sector wages are generally lower, and there are substantial differences between major cities and rural areas.