Putin Sacks Chief of Military's Land Forces

Don’t you ever get tired of worshiping russia?

Russia has not achieved this goal of keeping Ukraine out of NATO. At the moment president Trump opposes it and it’s not happening but there has been no guarantee that Ukraine cannot join NATO so that objective has not been accomplished.

Nor was the only military objective of Russia the seizing of Russian speaking areas.

Nor is the war over Russia can hold all the russian-speaking areas at once but it is in the fourth year of a devastating War which was completely unnecessary.

Your screen name is appropriate.

Putin, verbatim said it was their goal to go after the Russian ethnic areas:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_conducting_a_special_military_operation

Vladimir Putin on 24 February 2022, as the war commenced. Putin announced that Russia was launching a “special military operation” to defend the Russian-speaking territories in eastern Ukraine—the Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic... under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter.

Please, show me anywhere, not what we in our Western MSM claim or pretend is the case, where Russia stated that their goal was to seize all of Ukraine? I'll set the bar low, just one example where Putin, Lavrov, or any senior government official made any such statement?

I can show you where they explicitly stated that their goal was to go after the ethnic Russian areas, repeatedly, but not one single one where they claim to want to seize all of Ukraine.

Ukraine isn't in NATO, and will not be in NATO for the foreseeable future, fact. The rest is rationalization.

It's Russia that is sitting on 18% and gaining of Ukraine, not vice versa. Normally when you "win" you gain land, not lose it. LOL

I imagine you're proficient with Google. So try this:

-Compare Russia and Ukraine's GDP pre-war and today.

-Compare Russia and Ukraine's population pre-war and today.

-Compare Russia and Ukraine's debt pre-war and today.

-Compare Russia and Ukraine's infrastructure pre-war and today.

-Guess who had elections in 2024, Russia or Ukraine? Ukraine decided to ban all opposition parties, shut down all TV, papers, radio and jail journalists (to include foreign journalists) that dare write anything derogatory about the war?

-Guess who is resorting to forced conscription because they are running out of bodies, Russia or Ukraine?

But sure, Ukraine is winning, because you really-really wish that were true and say so repeatedly.

Hint #1, supporting a war caused by a globalist Democrat, which an ultra left MSM and social media stand behind, does not make you a conservative.

Hint #2, just because you hate Russia and Russians, does not mean everything you hear that is bad about them in said MSM and social media is true.

Russia has zero intent on taking Western Ukraine.

That would be a nightmare for them: a long term and large scale drain on their military, intel, security forces, as well as in logistics and cost.

It is the Western MSM, Ukraine, and some self professed “experts” that claim it was Russia's goal to take all of Ukraine, but that is highly unlikely.

Currently, Russia is in the position to advance faster if they chose. But that is not their objective.

Russia is doing a slow creep to keep the pressure on and prevent the amassing of a Ukrainian reserve which would allow Ukraine to launch another large scale counter offensive.

The last hope of winning for Ukraine slipped form their hands in 2023 when their counter offensive failed.

As Russia mobilized and with far more potential than Ukraine (3.5 times the population, even more industry and manufacturing, far more R&D and tech...), Russia today has a ground force of over 500,000 men in uniform and where only (20%) are conscripts, none forced. Ukraine has 250,000 men in its ground forces and is relying on a far greater number of conscripts (40%) who are in part forced. But sure, Ukraine is winning on all fronts...

Listening to people like you reminds me of the German WWII Wochenschau: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1rsiK1LIKk (1945 and the Germans are still talking about how they are winning)

Hint #3: Don't mess with someone 3.5 times your size. That probably won't end well, even if you have a big friend that says he has your back.

When people resort to fallacies, it’s an admission they have no argument.

BTW, since we have large scale censorship in social media, are blocking 40+ Russian news outlets, etc. the only large scale propaganda (state information operations to influence perceptions) are from the Ukraine and our own folks, not Russia.

That’s why you get endless BS stories about some Ghost of Kiev, fighting to the last man on Snake Island, stories about 9 year old girls with blue and yellow ribbons their hair and sucking on a lollipop holding a rifle, endless casualty statistics that are grossly inflated, glorious counter offensives until they just suddenly disappear from the media after they fail... No propaganda there. (Sarc and LOL)

Ever since 2013 and with the revisions of the Smith-Mundt Act, the US government is permitted to engage in outright propaganda operations domestically.

This caused the war: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/

Stop making up more crap to pretend like you have some moral cause on your side.

NATO expansion wasn’t Germany’s call, it wasn’t France, it wasn’t the Chinese or even the Russians. That was our call. We had the ability to change course October - February. We ignored the Russians and basically tried to fast track the issue.

We knew it was a big red flag for the Russians and we did it anyway.

The Russians do not want us playing with our fighters, bombers, tanks and missiles on their border anymore than we want them on ours.

In fact, our involvement in Panama of late is because the mere influence China has on the operations of the Panama canal (no bases and troop presence) is already more than we can tolerate. We basically brow beat the Solomon islands into submission because them making the decision to host a Chinese naval base is more than we can tolerate (we see the entire Pacific Rim as our sphere of influence). We almost went to nuclear war in the Cuban missile crisis and there is 90 miles of water between Cuba and us (we to this day see all of Central and even South America as our sphere of influence).

We would NEVER accept what we are expecting Russia to accept.

We knew this would piss the Russians off:

-Biden 1997: https://youtu.be/fIoRKLdwxXA?si=klhNpIWJkXgMRPhe

-Ukraine 2014 and Georgia 2008 showed that Russia is willing to use force to stop NATO expansion along its borders. They warned us after the Balkans (Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia in 2004 that this would not happen again.

Speculation: Russia had a peacetime economy 2021 with about 4% GDP going into their war machine. After arming Ukraine since 2014, given the size and population of Ukraine, the likely international reaction, Ukraines economic significance, we gambled on Russia not being willing to pay the price in using force to stop us in bringing Ukraine into NATO.

We (the Biden administration) were the ones that lied (no NATO East expansion). We gambled with 41 million lives in Ukraine because some big corporations, banks and asset holding companies see EU and NATO membership as securities and a tool for policy harmonization as well as market access, which is what they want.

Once we began pushing for NATO expansion along Russian borders, we put Russia in the position where they feel threatened.

Get this into your head, this caused the war: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/

I assume you’re old and stuck with some Cold War perception, but the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact are history.

Russia prior to the war had 55% our ground forces, 47% our air force, and 43% our navy. They are 1/10 our economy, 44% our population, 40% the number of military aged males, less industry and manufacturing, less high tech, less allies, weaker allies.

But then we want to make them out as this huge threat that is going to invade Poland... It’s an insult to ones intelligence.

It’s us that is stepping all over them in Syria, Libya, Venezuela and Iraq, all nations aligned or formal allies with Russia which we decided to invade or sponsor coups in.

It’s us trying to expand NATO up to Russia’s border from the North all the way South and across their belly.

It’s us that withdrew from the Ballistic Missile Treaty, lied about NATO East expansion, and cheated on the Conventional Forces Europe Treaty.

I get it, Red Dawn and the Fulda Gap are still in your head, but it’s actually us that is the big guy today. It’s us that acts with impunity and put Russia in a position where they can articulate a viable national security threat. We can’t, but they can. There was no pressing national security need for us in expanding NATO into Ukraine.

But there is one thing you said that is correct. This war was unnecessary.

Let me add to what you correctly stated, this war was also predictable in that it would happen and what the outcome would be.

This isn’t 1980 and we’re not the underdogs defending freedom, human rights and democracy today.

Our Constitution is meaningless. Name me one of the first 10 amendments which has not been abridged by our federal government seeking to grab ever more power?

It’s “us” that is stomping all over the place, sponsoring coups, installing puppet regimes, breaking treaties, working with despot regimes if they do our bidding (Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Morocco...), bombing and invading nations in what are expeditionary and offensive military campaigns where you CANNOT articulate a national security argument (Serbia, Libya 2011, Iraq 2003 under false pretences...).

Today it is “us” that changed our MO to include mass surveillance of our own people, mass propaganda domestically, torture (enhanced interrogations), kidnapping (extra ordinary rendition), assassinating our own people abroad without trial or jury (literally a bureaucratic and political decision), violating people’s rights to due process and imprisoning them indefinitely without a trial, conducting mass censorship campaigns. Tell me if you deny any of these and I’ll provide you credible sources of where we have done this, repeatedly, as well as the policies that allow for this, systemically.

Times change. We lost our way: https://youtu.be/hLmuF-0P4tk?si=tFF1ppf7NCtnVU4x

That doesn’t mean “we the people” are like that. You will find many Christian and more conservative / constitutional minded folks in this country. But as a nation, our government and foreign policies today have become nearly identical to what you think you oppose by being anti-Russian.

We live in a fallen / imperfect world, and we were never without flaws, but guided by certain moral principals and lacking the centralization of powers, we were the good guys. What we have become today is reminiscent of what we once referred to as the “evil empire,” we just don’t want to believe that, even though our actions prove it to be true.

Do you actually have an argument of your own to make?

Or, what point which I made do you disagree with?

1.) The US began changing post Cold War. As the only remaining super-power, US policy makers quickly realized that we can use military force with impunity to achieve political and economic ends.

2.) But, post 9-11 things really took a turn for the bad and started to become Orwellian (the creation of the police state with things like the Patriot Act). Bush W. (another so-called conservative) allowed for government to drift in a very dangerous direction and since then things have only gotten worse may it be Obama or Biden.

Today the US actually has a Kill-list, where bureaucrats and politicians (no court, no trial, no jury and in secrecy) the government gives the order to kill even its own citizens: https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/10/06/frightening-revelations-about-the-us-governments-secret-kill-list/ https://www.reuters.com/article/world/us/secret-panel-can-put-americans-on-kill-list-idUSTRE79475C/ Do you really think it’s an un-patriotic and un-American thing to question that?

Today the US tortures people, flat out tortures: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_interrogation_techniques Is that an American value?

Today the US kidnaps people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition Is that “the rule of law” which we like to talk about?

Today the US propagandizes its own people, as in no kidding full blown state paid for information operations targeting US citizens: https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-government-made-news-to-americans/ Something that must make one an American hater if you disagree with it? This is one aspect where Trump is pushing back and has made some headway.

We had and actual government office with the sole purpose to censor (block Internet), or coordinate censorship on social media and the news: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/restoring-freedom-of-speech-and-ending-federal-censorship/ Thank God at least here we are moving in the right direction, again Trump.

You live in a world long past.

This is no longer what defines how our government operates: https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/ At some point, government broke out of it’s cage (the US Constitution is all about restricting powers and decentralization).

It must be American hating stuff to believe that this document should be the framework in which our government lives.

Ukraine is about as unjustified of a war as it gets.

BUT, unlike Bush W with Iraq, Biden had the advantage that today we have / had (Trump is thankfully dismantling some of this) a massive censorship and propaganda apparatus in place.

Even Iraq was far more justifiable than Ukraine.

Iraq was restricting the movement of UN arms inspectors, they did have missiles that exceeded the 150 km range and armistice limit, they routinely violated the southern and northern no fly and no wheel zones. They took shots at our fighters with AAA and SAMs. Iraq attempted an assassination of Bush H. (They were caught in Kuwait), were paying $20,000 per suicide bomber (paid to the family, which promoted suicide bombings), and likely were dabbling with WMD. Yet Bush W. was mauled by the media because of this conflict in terms of justification.

When you go to war, you need to make sure you have a real / legitimate just cause: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory#:~:text=The%20just%20war%20theory%20presents,preventable%20atrocities%20may%20justify%20war.

A conflict where you CANNOT articulate a national security threat, where we took the actions which set the wheels of war in motion (NATO East expansion), which is at its core economically motivated, is not a justifyable conflict.

It’s just a war that was sold to the public really well.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.