U.S. Navy’s Cruiser Countdown The U.S. Navy’s cruisers will all be gone before 2027 is over. Here’s the order in which they’ll go.

https://www.navalnews.com/cavasships/2024/06/u-s-navys-cruiser-countdown/ ^ | 6/9/24 | Chis Cavas

[laplata]

I amend what I said and stand corrected. I think you are right in that they are not being replaced at the rate they are being decommissioned.

[desertsolitaire]

Thanks, I never understood how our system seems to retire things at a pace that is not in step with replacement or at least refurbishment. The B-52 fleet is an exception.

[UCANSEE2]

If they are jamming the GPS of your missiles, how are you going to ‘send a missile there’ ?

[laplata]

That’s how the Military Industrial Complex and those who line their pockets work.

For a long time, it worked pretty well, and we had technological advantages to take up any slack. Now the Russians and Chinese and others are so good at stealing our technology that we are in grave danger. And there are hardly any more Americans who put America first. Too many sell out their country for profit to the highest bidder.

[Reverend Wright]

” When they’re wrong again regarding the navel capabilities of China and Russia to take on our navy, then we’re talking tens of thousands of AMERICAN lives. “

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The problem is the “leadership” of the West dosn’t care about the lives of their own military (especially the demographic that serves in the combat units) any more than they do the lives of Ukraine soldiers.

The also ignore warnings and just continue with known strategies and equipment even when war games show them to be a potential disaster.

The Millennium Challenge 2002 simulation against Iran showed that non-conventional / suicide tactics could defeat and SINK the US Fleet, And that was 20 years ago, the Iranians have vastly improved capability, and on the US side, mostly the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

[ETCM]

Can we expedite the rate of replacement to not leave a gap?

Unlikely. It would take a huge investment. All of the Flight III Burkes are in excess of what was planned for the class, as were about a dozen Flight IIA ships. In the end, we will have 92 of them. The problem lies in the Navy's disastrous ship building program. The Zumwalt class destroyer that was to succeed the Burkes, and the CGX cruiser that was to replace the Ticos were both cancelled. The 2 LCS variants have been a clown show, and now the Constellation class frigate is being delayed. There is no new cruiser in sight, and probably never will be. The next generation DDG will be in the mid 2030s at the earliest. Maybe they'll redesignate it a cruiser to justify cost overruns.

[Reverend Wright]

“Logistics is another factor that China is questionable,...”

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If a terrorist group can impose a naval blockade of the Suez Canal via drones, I bet China can blockade Taiwan using the same tactics.

This whole concept that they need 10 carriers and they have to do a D Day invasion is nonsense.

[Reverend Wright]

” A group of Navy officers together with some executives in U.S. companies that work on building U.S. navy ships, madde a visit to South Korea recently. They said they were amazed at how modern was the Korean naval shipbuilding industry, with so much more technology, automation and efficiencies than our American shipbuilding works. “

But the difference is that S Korea is the second largest civilian ship constructor in the world.

US civilian ship construction is basically zero (less than 10 per year).

So the Us is attempting to maintain a military shipyard capacity on top of a civilian which no longer exists.

[Reverend Wright]

“. All too true. If not for the Jones Act, the US commercial shipbuilding sector would expire. The problem is high US wage rates ...”

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Japan has a major share of world ship construction, and they are not a low wage-based economy. They also have higher energy costs.

The problem is incompetence, corruption and greed of US and generally, Anglosphere Corporate managers.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1256561/global-shipbuilding-capacity-by-country/

[Wuli]

“But the difference is that S Korea is the second largest civilian ship constructor in the world. ...”US civilian ship construction is basically zero (less than 10 per year).”

Yes. So the question is WHY??? Has/did U.S. commercial ship building sink so low. Is any federal legislation/regulation regarding shipping responsible for that, or did East Asia (first Japan, then South Korea, now China) with cheaper labor and newly built modern shipyards and less expensive steal merely out-compete agaisnt U.S. shipyards for the world’s commercial shipping fleets??? If so, and if the cost is most important of all (to make our defense dolars go further), then maybe the U.S. military just has to contract with Japan and South Korea for our ships.

[Reverend Wright]

Japan is not a low wage and low energy-cost shipbuilder, yet they maintain a major shipbuilding share.

Even the EU still has some, and they are certainly not a low wage/low cost area.

Meanwhile the Anglosphere has outsourced everything, while being surrounded by oceans. 🙃

[Chode]

quantity, has a quality all it’s own...

[Rockingham]

True, to a degree. Keep in mind though that Japan has a complex schedule of subsidies and incentives that favor her shipbuilding industry. Now though, Korea is undercutting Japan on cost. And there is that strong dollar problem.

[Reverend Wright]

“. True, to a degree. Keep in mind though that Japan has a complex schedule of subsidies and incentives that favor her shipbuilding industry. “

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So why doesn’t the USA do this ? Since it is national security ?

[Rockingham]

The US does not have an agency for national industrial policy.

[Reverend Wright]

What did they use in WW2 and Korea ?

The war could be argued to have alrady started, and an incapable US Navy really is an emergency, unlike, say the Army for MidEast wars.

[Billthedrill]

Old cruiser sailor here. I'll believe they're serious about the whole thing when I see gun ports port and starboard where they belong.

Seriously, 35 years is a long time for a hull. Ship designations don't mean the same as they used to because the means to meet the mission have changed so much in those 35 years. Sometimes the crystal ball works fine, others (LCS, I'm looking at YOU) well, the execution falls short of what was probably not that great an idea to begin with.

[Rockingham]

Traditional cruisers were intermediate armored gunships of a size and potency between battleships and destroyers. Ship to ship gun duels were rare in WW II and absent entirely in Korea, so cruisers were most often used for shore bombardment and fleet antiaircraft gun defense.

Nowadays, there are no battleships in service and cruisers and destroyers are of similar size and are mostly used for defending aircraft carriers. For that purpose, US cruisers and destroyers rely on sophisticated radar, an array of missiles and short-range cannons against attacks from the air, with sonar and torpedoes against enemy submarines. In a pinch, even though US destroyers and cruisers have little or no armor, they are expected to absorb or divert missile or torpedo attacks so as to protect carriers.

You are correct about our need for more naval surface combat vessels. Against China, the best US strategy will rely heavily on cutting off China's sea trade. Much of that will be done through economic warfare, but having USN aircraft carrier task forces and even single destroyers and frigates prowling the world's oceans will back up our diplomatic demands.

Notably, upgrades to the longest range US Navy missiles on cruisers and destroyers now make them capable of striking everything from satellites, to incoming ballistic missiles, to enemy ships almost a hundred miles away. Connectivity with drones and combat aircraft will permit even relatively small US Naval vessels to direct air attacks from hundreds or thousands of miles away.

If done properly and with severity, trade interdiction and economic warfare will collapse China's economy into a severe depression, with mass unemployment and potential starvation. This will cause the CCP to be overthrown, with China soon breaking up into several regional states.

[doorgunner69]

It is called the “Home on Jam” option

We designed the GPS antennas on the Excaliber and ERGM projectiles to do that over 30 years ago.

[Reverend Wright]

"If done properly and with severity, trade interdiction and economic warfare will collapse China's economy into a severe depression, with mass unemployment and potential starvation. "

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When you look at the results of Millenium Challenge 2002, what does it say about the survival of the US surface fleet, when China has infinitely more capacity than 2002 Iran ?

All you have to do is look at the missile coverage from this map, and the problem for surface ships becomes clear. What is the plan if a supposed blockade cannot be maintained ?

Fact is, the US is no longer capable of exerting this sort of power. And it is time to put aside the delusions and start making decision based on some sort of connection and attachment to reality.