“Any half decent history of Russia will tell you that Moscow didn’t exist even as a local power until the Mongol hegemony in the 13th and 14th centuries.”
So you think nobody lived in the region until the 13th century and were not going around taking over villages that had food and other worth? And if they were, they were just great people that didn’t harm anyone for their personal needs?
You’re right about the city of Moscow. But Moscow had nothing to do with the villages and the warring going on between them at that time. And the article this thread is based on didn’t say that Moscow was attacking, they displayed Russia was. And there’s a whole lot more to that region than just Moscow and was in the 9th century.
I don’t claim anything. But even common sense should point out that there were villages and early people that at some point went into the region and some settled there. And countries are not created from a whole lot of people suddenly appearing in the region without there being much smaller numbers prior to that. That’s how countires are formed.And they had to survive so attacking their neighbors was no different than in the US. And the explorers and pioneers were the way our towns, states, and ultimately our country’s borders were established. And if the country retained the principles of taking other cities and countries was the answer to their advancement, then they will act this way. Two other countries that did the sme thing were Japan and Germany in the mid 1900’s.
wy69
For one thing, none of the tribes occupying the forest zone in the 9th century called themselves Russian. (Vernadsky thought the word Rus' derived from an Alan word, but most scholars think it was Scandinavian for "rowers" or "boatmen". Even Moscow didn't use the word until Catherine the Great expropriated it from Kiev to try to bring some respectability to her empire.)
Intertribal and intercity squabbling prior to the arrival of the Mongols, (which I'm guessing you're trying to elevate to the level of invasions), doesn't stand being compared to the large army employed by Ivan to conquer and plunder Kazan in 1552. Even Kievan Rus' military in 1200 was little more than a mob of maybe 5000 men. Compare to Ivan's 60,000 men with cannon and siege engines.