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To: CraigEsq
Is there any authority applying this to civil cases, as opposed to criminal?

The 8th amendment is written pretty broadly. It is not specific to the nature of the crime like the 6th and 7th amendments.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
The term "fines" suggests civil penalties.

Furthermore, the 8th amendment has been incorporated into the states in Timbs v. Indiana which involved an asset forfeiture (a Land Rover) after Timbs was found guilty of a non-felony drug charge.

Further to your question, does the 5th amendment protection against double jeopardy or self-incrimination only apply to criminal cases or do they apply to civil cases as well? If the 5th amendment applies to both types of cases, then why wouldn't the 8th amendment also apply to both types of cases?

It doesn’t work that way. He’ll have to appeal to the First Department, then to the New York Court of Appeals

Except that part of the problem is that the excessive fine was designed to deny President Trump of his right to appeal. Engeron also banned Trump from doing business in New York, which means that Trump cannot go to New York banks to negotiate the collateral to put up a $350 million bond in order to appeal.

Therefore, he must appeal to SCOTUS that his 14th amendment rights to due process and equal protection are being violated by this ruling. He's in a "Catch-22" in that he must post an excessive bond in order to appeal, he cannot find banks with sufficient assets to secure that bond, and he shouldn't be forced to liquidate assets just to be able to appeal an excessive fine.

Hence, SCOTUS is the only avenue for Trump to appeal his due process rights.

-PJ

342 posted on 02/19/2024 11:51:56 AM PST by Political Junkie Too ( * LAAP = Left-wing Activist Agitprop Press (formerly known as the MSM))
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To: Political Junkie Too

Sorry, you CANNOT appeal from a state trial court to the US Supreme Court. There is no way to do it. End of discussion.

Answering your question to me, Fifth amendment double-jeopardy only applies in criminal cases, and then only in cases brought by the same “sovereign.” You can be independently prosecuted by a state and the feds for the same crime. The concepts of res judicata and collateral estoppel are applicable to civil cases. Further, if you refuse to answer a question in a civil case on Fifth amendment self-incrimination grounds, the judge can and will direct the jury that they may infer based on your non-answer that you are refusing to answer because you have committed a crime.

In the 8th amendment, fines are lumped in with bail and cruel and unusual punishment - both criminal concepts.


345 posted on 02/19/2024 1:34:56 PM PST by CraigEsq (,)
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