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To: T.B. Yoits

All modern commercial airliners have engines that are forward of their wings and below their center of gravity. This includes all Airbus aircraft, including the chief competing craft A320.

All these modern commercial airliners have stall recovery procedures which require the pilot to pitch down to at least wings level prior to increasing thrust. This is because on all modern airliners, increasing thrust will pitch the aircraft further up due to their engines being below the center of gravity and forward of the wing. This is not unique to the 737 in general or 737 MAX in particular.

Specs are nearly impossible to find, but best I can find is that the 737 MAX’s LEAP engines are mounted four inches further forward and an inch and a half higher than the 737 NG’s CFM56 engines. (On planes that are 129ft or 143ft long, MAX 8 and 9 respectively.)

I believe the fan diameter is 17” greater on the LEAP’s, the MAX main landing gear length is unchanged from the NG, and the nose gear is 8” longer.

Regardless, the 737 MAX is not unstable like a fly-by-wire F-16 where the center of gravity is behind the center of lift. No, the MAX still has its center of gravity ahead of its center of lift, just like the entirely fly-by-wire A320.

One interesting difference between the B737 and A320 is the autotrim for pitch in the A320. It constantly trims for the pilot whereas in the 737, the pilot manually trims for pitch. Interesting that Boeing went with the sneaky automatic trim adjusting MCAS to make the MAX feel more like the NG.


42 posted on 02/01/2024 7:24:57 AM PST by OA5599
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To: OA5599
The 737 Max is unstable in certain profiles without the MCAS correcting for it. From the article at the link in my earlier post:

"Without corrective input, at a high angle of attack a 737 MAX will continue to pitch up further, leading to a stall. As a result, Boeing finds the 737 MAX design does not satisfy Federal Aviation Authority (FAA) airworthiness criteria for stability, particularly Federal Aviation Regulation (FAR) 25-173 [see appendix]. If the angle of attack of the aircraft exceeds 14 degrees, the nose will rise on its own until the aircraft stalls, unless a corrective action is taken."


Appendix: Federal Aviation Regulation Airworthiness Criteria Sec. 25.173 — Static longitudinal stability.

Under the conditions specified in §25.175, the characteristics of the elevator control forces (including friction) must be as follows:

(a) A pull must be required to obtain and maintain speeds below the specified trim speed, and a push must be required to obtain and maintain speeds above the specified trim speed. This must be shown at any speed that can be obtained except speeds higher than the landing gear or wing flap operating limit speeds or VFC/MFC, whichever is appropriate, or lower than the minimum speed for steady unstalled flight.

(b) The airspeed must return to within 10 percent of the original trim speed for the climb, approach, and landing conditions specified in §25.175 (a), (c), and (d), and must return to within 7.5 percent of the original trim speed for the cruising condition specified in §25.175(b), when the control force is slowly released from any speed within the range specified in paragraph (a) of this section.

(c) The average gradient of the stable slope of the stick force versus speed curve may not be less than 1 pound for each 6 knots.

(d) Within the free return speed range specified in paragraph (b) of this section, it is permissible for the airplane, without control forces, to stabilize on speeds above or below the desired trim speeds if exceptional attention on the part of the pilot is not required to return to and maintain the desired trim speed and altitude.

[Amendment 25–7, 30 FR 13117, Oct. 15, 1965]

48 posted on 02/01/2024 9:49:09 AM PST by T.B. Yoits
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