Posted on 12/30/2023 8:10:14 AM PST by SaxxonWoods
“Ukraine may have existed, but it was not an independent country until 1992. And was a Russian client until 2014.”
Do you mean because it had agreements with Russia? Because if that is your criterion, half the nations on the planet would qualify as “Russian clients.”
“Importing savage African and Muslim rapists destroyed Europe.”
There is much truth in that statement.
“Merkel did more damage than all the wars in European history.”
That is just hyperbole, and is unsupported by the facts.
No
Because Russia had full control over their political and economic systems before the coup/color revolution of 2014.
Some think that was bad, some think it was good.
But it was the reality.
“Because Russia had full control over their political and economic systems before the coup/color revolution of 2014.”
Well, with Yanukovych it certainly had a lot of influence over Ukraine, but not the FULL control you are claiming.
Enough control to put Yanukovych in power...along with all his elected predecessors.
All “economic development” originated in Moscow too.
Putin: If you let me finish, you will be satisfied with my answer.
The Crimea is not a disputed territory. Unlike the case of Georgia and South Ossetia, there has been no ethnic conflict there.
Russia has long recognized the borders of today’s Ukraine. By and large, we have completed our talks on the border. Now we have to deal with the demarcation, but this is a technical issue.
I think that asking a question about Russia’s targets of this kind reeks of provocation.
There are complicated processes going on in society in the Crimea. There are problems of the Crimean Tatars, the Ukrainian population, the Russian population, the Slavic population in general, but this is Ukraine’s domestic political problem.
Hell, that’s what this fight has been about!
Whether Ukraine would remain a Russian client, or become an EU client/member of the “western” conglomerate.
Ukrainians and everyone in Europe/US wants them in THEIR orbit. And Russia wants to keep them.
US interests are that we should not care either way. But do-gooders often confuse their perception of good with real US interests.
Our interests are best served with the free flow of AG and energy produced by both Russia and Ukraine. AND the restoration of our military capabilities...which were reduced by supporting Ukraine. And they were inadequate before the fight started.
A quick Russian victory is where our REAL interests were.
Europe recovered from the wars on European soil. It will not recover from the importation of the Islamic hordes. It is not hyperbole to point that out.
On August 24, 1814, during the Chesapeake campaign of the War of 1812, the British invaded Washington, D.C., the capital of the United States. The British were urged to attack the former colonies after American troops attacked Canada and burned government buildings. Washington was chosen as the target because of its symbolic importance, easy access from the sea, and the inability of inexperienced American troops to defend it. The British Army easily defeated a volunteer American force at the Battle of Bladensburg on August 24, 1814, and marched on Washington City. Meeting little to no resistance, British troops set fire to much of the city, in retaliation for the Americans' burning of the Canadian capital at York on April 27, 1813. The War of 1812 marked a permanent shift in British-American relations, forged a sense of national unity in Canada, changed US politics, and ended British support for native American tribes in the Mid-West.
You see the difference between the US & Ukraine, is that the US maintained control, and that control has lasted centuries. Ukraine has never really had control for centuries.
Of course, you can believe what you want. Just means you are wrong, and are too wedded to the propaganda that has been fed to you. You will never grow because you refuse to do so. Growth might dispel your beliefs, and you can't tolerate that. That is all on you.
Contrived Ukrainian war
Biden takes bow
“Hell, that’s what this fight has been about! Whether Ukraine would remain a Russian client, or become an EU client/member of the ‘western’ conglomerate.”
Russia didn’t want Ukraine as a client state (as it indeed was, just as it was a client state of other countries); it wanted Ukraine as a captive state. Not unlike Germany wanting Austria and Czechoslovakia as captive states in the 1930s before “annexing” them.
The problem for Russia is, that Ukraine does NOT want to be a captive state of Russia; nor does it want to be annexed by Russia.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Stop your silliness. We fought the war of 1812 and we existed. Ukraine exists. Stop fantasizing.
Your condescending mocks are offensive. You can run in circles and yltell everyone else how ignorant they are nonetheless Ukraine exists.
Russia has designs well beyond Ukraine. They announce this constantly. Putin and Russia are dangerous and will be more so if they control Ukraine.
That is why a quick Russian victory was not in our interests.
Not is this war helpful, but Biden’s weakness brought it on.
“Russia didn’t want Ukraine as a client state (as it indeed was, just as it was a client state of other countries); it wanted Ukraine as a captive state.”
A distinction without a difference.
Just as a bunch of European countries are clients of the US. If one tried to peel off (either as the result of a coup, color revolution or general change in population sentiment) the US would not allow it.
If we shared a border (like Canada) we’d go to war over it.
“Russia has designs well beyond Ukraine. They announce this constantly.”
I know there’s blather and bluster on Russian TV, but I’m unaware of official Russian statements to that effect.
Kinda like what you’d hear from Hannity or Tucker.
No you’re mistaken. Russia has called for NATO to leave all firmer Soviet republics. They have threatened the baltics and other counties with attack. And unlike the USA they do not have a free media, therefore pronouncements by their “Hannity” are officially sanctioned.
Also, Putin had been destroying the surrounding republics well before Ukraine.
If Russia were not a threat, it would behave reasonably and not have launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine
“Enough control to put Yanukovych in power...along with all his elected predecessors.”
But that’s simply not true. Kravchuk favored joining NATO. Kuchma wanted closer ties with the EU, the US, and Russia; he even wanted to join the EU, and signed a partnership agreement with NATO, and sent troops to support NATO operations after 9/11. And, of course, Yushchenko, who evidence points to Russia having poisoned. All three of them preceded Yanukovych.
Maybe Putin will do the world a favor and start with Geneva and Brussels
How far back are we supposed to go to recognize borders?
If we are going back to the 1400’s, I will have to get the musket out to fight off the Algonquin coming back to the hood.
Or, we could go back to the time where the USSR collapsed out of their stupidity and the world recognized that Ukraine wanted no more of their crap and we all agreed on the borders.
But stupid Russians just make up the rules they want to follow. They are like Arabs, except they drink vodka. And smell.
It will be best when Russia is broken into a bunch of little mongol fiefdoms. I look forward to that day.
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