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Study: Someone bet against the Israeli stock market in the days before Hamas' Oct. 7 attack
CBS News ^ | December 5, 2023 | Madeleine Richards

Posted on 12/06/2023 4:19:36 PM PST by Angelino97

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To: Jonty30
However, the risk is that the stock doesn’t correct, at least within the time frame you set your bid at, and you could take a wash because you are forced to buy a stock at a higher point than you wanted to pay.

A quote, often attributed to Keynes. "The market can often remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent".

21 posted on 12/06/2023 4:48:09 PM PST by fhayek
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To: Angelino97

Something Soros would do.


22 posted on 12/06/2023 4:48:27 PM PST by Extra-Ordinary Objectives (My preferred pronouns are intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.)
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To: ifinnegan
Short Selling:

You borrow an asset from someone else, say 100 shares of Tesla. You sell what you just borrowed, say for $250 a share, and get a $25,000 cash loan. You're broker arranges all this, and you pay interest on the loan to your broker until you buy the stock back to return it.

If Tesla has a bad news day, and it's stock goes down to $200, you buy it back for $20,000 and return it to the former owner. Again, your broker arranges it all. From the $5000 difference, you pay your broker his interest and pocket the rest, it's yours to keep.

But, if Tesla has a great news day, and its stock goes up to $300, you now are liable for $30,000 to re-aquire the asset you borrowed and sold (100 shares of Tesla stock). If your broker only grants you a $31,000 line of credit, he closes your loan: He uses your account to buy the now high price stock and also collects the interest owed to him.

You're out $30,000 to buy back the stock and another $1,000 or so in interest for the privilege to gamble in your broker's casino, a net loss of $6,000.

23 posted on 12/06/2023 4:48:28 PM PST by Tellurian (To the Dems, the middle class is a festering wound. They want it amputated.)
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To: AnglePark

He was my first thought.


24 posted on 12/06/2023 4:51:44 PM PST by EvilCapitalist (81 million votes my ass.)
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To: ifinnegan
to make money you need to sell higher than you buy.

Usually you buy first and sell later, hopefuly at a higher price.

In short selling the order is reversed ... you sell first then buy later hopefuly at a lower price.

With stocks you have to find someone willing to lend you the shares to sell. Kinda like borrowing money ... you pay interest on it. You return the shares after you buy them back. The broker handles the details between the lender and borrower.
25 posted on 12/06/2023 4:55:32 PM PST by bankwalker (Repeal the 19th ...)
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To: Tellurian

Thanks.

Makes sense except terminology, for example: “ You sell what you just borrowed, say for $250 a share, and get a $25,000 cash loan.”

If you sold it why is it a loan? Why isn’t it just that you get $25,000 on the sale?


26 posted on 12/06/2023 4:59:39 PM PST by ifinnegan (Democrats kill babies and harvest their organs to sell)
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To: hinckley buzzard

“Probably the same people who took out massive short positions just prior to 9/11.”

Names and details, please.


27 posted on 12/06/2023 5:00:47 PM PST by JimRed (TERM LIMITS, NOW! Finish the damned WALL! TRUTH is the new HATE SPEECH!)
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To: bankwalker

The lender can’t lose, only gets interest, right? That’s why he does it?


28 posted on 12/06/2023 5:01:55 PM PST by ifinnegan (Democrats kill babies and harvest their organs to sell)
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To: ifinnegan

The lender makes some money on the shares they lend, but of course there is always the risk that their price could go down, which is what the borrower is betting on. It creates a healthy market.


29 posted on 12/06/2023 5:05:16 PM PST by bankwalker (Repeal the 19th ...)
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To: MNDude
Of course the terrorist knew in advance.

Dozens of embedded journalists knew in advance. Egypt knew in advance.

Egypt? This this is the first I heard anyone accuse Egypt. Has Israel accused Egypt?

30 posted on 12/06/2023 5:09:22 PM PST by Angelino97
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To: Angelino97

Egypt intelligence official says Israel ignored repeated warnings of ‘something big’

https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-intelligence-official-says-israel-ignored-repeated-warnings-of-something-big/


31 posted on 12/06/2023 5:17:55 PM PST by MNDude
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To: ifinnegan

You borrow stock, sell it, hoping to buy it back later at a cheaper price and returning it to the lender.

The brokerages handle the borrowing/returning part.

Short sellers are mercilessly vilified by economic illiterates. They serve a function of investigating/uncovering fraud.


32 posted on 12/06/2023 5:59:33 PM PST by Freest Republican (This space for rent)
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To: Angelino97

a Munich-2 candidate


33 posted on 12/06/2023 6:05:40 PM PST by Buck-Toothed Knuckle Dragger
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To: Freest Republican

Thanks.

That it is loaned is key.

It’s still sell higher than bought.

Sell high, buy low.


34 posted on 12/06/2023 6:16:17 PM PST by ifinnegan (Democrats kill babies and harvest their organs to sell)
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To: ifinnegan

On most stocks, they do not charge interest.

Brokerages are only supposed to allow short sales if shares are available to be borrowed. Problems arise when they allow the short sale w/o having the stock to lend.

On certain bankruptcies like Countrywide Financial borrow fees hit 140%apr.

They are very slimy w borrow fees of heavily shorted stocks. The apr changes daily based on the availability of shares to be lent.

Lastly, the sale obv generates cash. Shorting can also be an inexpensive way to borrow money. Instead of paying a cc 24%, one can short a utility and pay their dividend to the lender, saving quite a bit.


35 posted on 12/06/2023 6:23:45 PM PST by Freest Republican (This space for rent)
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To: ifinnegan
If you sold it why is it a loan?

It's actually the broker who sold someone else's stock. That was in order to loan the "short seller" the proceeds from the sale. The "short seller" then has money he didn't have before - a loan. But it's the broker who's on the hook to replace the other guy's stock at some point, whether it's then worth more or less, so besides loaning the proceeds, the broker makes it the "short seller's" obligation to replace the stock at some point whether it costs more or less.

The broker keeps track of all this. The "short seller" has a negative number of shares of the stock he made a "bet" on recorded in his account, and also a loan of the money from those shares having been sold.

If the stock falls in value, the "short seller" at some point buys it back on the cheap, closing the loan on his own, whereupon the broker returns it to the original owner and collects any remaining interest owed on the monetary loan. The original owner never knows his stock has been written up in the margin as on-loan, that's the broker's prerogative for the pool of traders that have signed up for margin trading (meaning they can borrow from the broker).

If the stock rises in value, it may start to appear that the "short seller" won't have enough money for the broker to make the original stock owner whole. The broker then calls in the loan (the original proceeds) and also takes enough cash or other assets that the "short seller" owns to buy back the stock at it's higher price. The broker also takes enough for his just compensation (interest he hasn't already collected and any fees) and closes the loan.

36 posted on 12/06/2023 6:34:35 PM PST by Tellurian (To the Dems, the middle class is a festering wound. They want it amputated.)
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To: ifinnegan

Sell high, buy low.

Exactly, usually when the market is setting records, the amount shorted sets records too.


37 posted on 12/06/2023 7:24:35 PM PST by Freest Republican (This space for rent)
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To: Angelino97
Many people are making the assumption that it was one or more of the "good guys" who had prior knowledge of the attack and profited from it.

I find it much more likely that members of Hamas, who obviously had pre knowledge of the attack, traded on the Israel Stock Exchange and made profits. The palestinians are evil, but they are not necessarily stupid.

38 posted on 12/06/2023 8:57:06 PM PST by CurlyDave
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To: Angelino97

Columbia Law School professor? Wouldn’t trust any Ivy League law professor today ( there must be a few honorable exceptions but I don’t know who they are).


39 posted on 12/06/2023 11:51:24 PM PST by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper (Figures )
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