Posted on 08/23/2023 3:05:56 PM PDT by Mariner
First, Nato-trained brigades of Western tanks would cross no-man’s land and clear a path through the minefields to the main Russian defences.
A second corps would leapfrog through the first to punch a hole through the “Surovikin line” – the three-layered system of trenches, tank traps and strong-points Russia has built to protect its precious “land bridge” to Crimea.
Then a third echelon – using British Challenger tanks and US Stryker fighting vehicles – would exploit the breakthrough, chasing collapsing Russian troops across the Pontic steppe all the way to the Azov Sea.
At least, that was the idea.
In reality, Ukraine’s counter offensive was never going to be easy. And frustrations are now growing over its painfully slow progress.
On Tuesday, Ukraine’s ministry of defence confirmed the capture of the village of Robotyne, an objective it has been trying to secure for the past two months.
It is a significant tactical gain, but Robotyne is only eight miles south of Orikhiv, the Ukrainian-held country town from where the offensive started.
It is another 14 miles to Tokmak, the next country town and a Russian stronghold. Melitopol and the Azov coast is another fifty miles beyond that.
The Ukrainians have not yet breached the first of the three defensive lines, but have already had to commit reserves being held back to do so.
(Excerpt) Read more at yahoo.com ...
And they all seem to think Russia will want to make a deal.
But what if Russia wants to continue the war through 2024, or beyond...all the way to Kiev?
I see this like I saw the Iran-Iraq war. Both sides should lose.
Throw in the Uniparty, and you have yourself a deal!
No kidding.
The Ukie counteroffensive has now progressed to the point where regular artillery can now target the main rail line connecting lower Kherson province and Crimea with Donetsk and Russia. The Ukies don’t have the air assets yet for air supremacy in the region, but they are slowly making progress. As long as the West keeps supporting Ukraine, they can grind down the Russians. Without reclaiming Crimea, Russia will continue to dominate Ukraine in the Black Sea. Russia is being degraded, slowly but surely.
If Russia could seize Kyiv they would have done it in February 2022.
Ukraine couldn’t accomplish a think with the arsenal of the entire western world at their disposal. Loser country. Way past time to cut our losses and bail.
And Lastpendence Day in The Ukraine is tomorrow!!
No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy.
Pretty sure Russia just wants Odessa, Crimea and the east.
Long time ago Putin muttered something about not wanting to govern the residents of Kiev, etc.
I don’t have it saved but it was about them never being happy to be under Russia and very difficult.
Otoh. I don’t think they will want to sit at the table and talk deals either, since twice they agreed and were betrayed.
Once by Minsk liars and the second time when Boris came running over from UK to tell Ukraine to not sign on a great deal.
Totally untrue.
They did not want Kiev.
And they still don’t.
You should follow Putin and Russian press before you make incorrect assumptions.
Russia flattened Grozny in a day.
They could do the same to Kiev.
“…As long as the West keeps supporting Ukraine, they can grind down the Russians … Russia is being degraded, slowly but surely….”
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Hopium is a VERY addictive drug. As you consume it over time you will require ever larger and larger doses to get the same high and it’s associated escape from reality.
It’s best not to become addicted to hopium!
I doubt that would be the case if we had a real President. But Biden has a way of effing up everything he touches. If you recall, Biden essentially vetoed a peace deal prior to the war’s beginning. And I’m pretty sure he scuttled later attempts by the Turks to broker an end to the war.
While I don’t agree with everything Col. Douglas MacGregor says, he seems to think it is necessary for the U.S. to be involved in the ultimate resolution and our primary interest has little to do with Ukraine, but with Russia decoupling from its relationship with China. That would require two things at a minimum; ceding majority Russian eastern provinces to Russia or giving those provinces autonomy from Ukraine and a commitment that Ukraine never joins NATO. Personally, I’d take that deal. There is nothing good to come out of a Russia-China alliance.
If you check their history, the people of Ukraine has been fighting since at least the 1930s. The Ukraine NAZIs and their sympathizers have been murdering other citizens of Ukraine who did not agree with them. They fought the Polish Home Guard. They fought the Soviets. The Ukrainian NAZIs fought on the side of the German National Socialists. They guarded and murdered concentration camp inmates. They murdered Jews by the gross. They are among the most corrupt individuals on the face of the earth. As far as corruption is concerned, they can shoulder to shoulder with Joe Biden any day of the week and twice on Sunday. But judging by the evidence. The evidence being Lying Joe Biden being in the White House and Honest Donald Trump not. People of the character of Joe Biden is who the Americans want to rule over them. The evidence speaks for itself.
From the start of June, 2023, Ukraine Military administration of support for engaged troops, is poor, and tragic - constantly:
- rare presence of anti-air, shoulder-launched missiles
- routine breakdown of casualty transport (on foot and by vehicle)
- POOR quality of leadership
There are many well-trained troops, but the necessary leadership that fills in the gaps between the troops and “What do they do, next?” . . . again and again, is often missing.
Some fresh troops show good personal initiative in such instances. Veterans show good personal initiative.
But other than the troops themselves, rescuing situations . . . where are the officers? For the riflemen; the leaders are where?
“As long as the West keeps supporting Ukraine”
They won’t.
And everyone in the game knows it.
“...our primary interest has little to do with Ukraine, but with Russia decoupling from its relationship with China. That would require two things at a minimum; ceding majority Russian eastern provinces to Russia or giving those provinces autonomy from Ukraine and a commitment that Ukraine never joins NATO. “
Why would Russia take that deal?
Not to mention that promises about limits on future NATO expansion are a joke given past history.
What I find fascinating - when processing through the BS reports, the fluffy fan reports, and everything in-between that I can get my eyes on - I find the following interesting facts to be a big part of the current situation (regardless of one’s position on Russia/Ukraine):
1 - Western nations have contributed an unbelievable quantity of artillery shells and missiles/rockets for air defense.
2 - Wester nations have PROMISED a huge quantity of somewhat modern tanks - but has failed to deliver a large portion of them. BUT...
3- despite not yet delivering the promised heavy equipment numbers (and being slow delivering what they have) - the Western allies demanded the big “counteroffensive” - but only after the equipment and arms delays gave time for Russia to build some of the biggest and most difficult defensive lines ever drawn - In fact - at this point, even if NATO contributed 50,000 troops to the fight - I’m not sure how much that would improve the situation - unless a bunch of air support were to also come in to play - thousands of square kilometers of heavily-mined land - a massive trench networked, “dragon’s teeth” barracades, and major ambush corridors would make it difficult for even a multi-national effort at this point.
4 - Western resistance to Ukraine fighting beyond their borders - Wester “allies” don’t even clearly support attacking Russian ammo and equipment facilities in Russia...
It is almost as if the Western “allies” have given Ukraine just enough to keep them fighting, but not enough for them to actually WIN - and at this point - I’m not sure it is even winnable without an exponential investment in weapons and personnel. The current “meat grinder” just simply is not sustainable. There aren’t enough able-bodied Ukrainians to play the game of attrition. Russia has more bodies to toss in the grinder, plus 75 years of Cold War weapons they didn’t get rid of (unlike Western nations that destroy/dispose of old weapons for new ones ever so often).
So - at this point - what are the REAL goals of the US, Poland, Germany, UK, etc.?
Is this just the world’s largest money laundering scheme, as some imply? This certainly isn’t the “contain Russia” claim of some - as Russia really isn’t contained, are they?
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