Posted on 08/09/2023 7:13:57 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
I'm pretty sure there were "alternate" slates of electors certified by the Trump/GOP election committees on December 14th in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Georgia, Arizona and Nevada. This was necessary because the 12/14/2020 date was established by Congress to meet the constitutional requirement for all electors to meet on the same day in their respective state capitals.
These "alternate" electors were only certified to protect the Trump campaign in the event one or more of their legal challenges in these various states was successful. If they didn't have these electors in place on December 14th, then the Trump campaign could have conceivably won a case on its merit after December 14th but lost the state in the election anyway if the Biden electors were the only ones who met on the December 14th date.
None of these alternate slates of electors were submitted to Congress by anyone in a position of legal authority to do so in any of these states.
You people keep banging on about Congress "certifying", but the Constitution says no such thing.
Read Article II and Amendment XII, and then show me where the words "certify", "certification", or "certificate" appear relating to the already certified votes being counted in public session of Congress.
You can't, because it's not there.
It's the STATES that certify the votes, and submit the certificates TO Congress.
But all of the battleground states, which definitely had the POWER to do as you suggest, had already refused to do so.
Congress has no supervisory authority over the States appointment power.
RE: Congress has no supervisory authority over the States appointment power.
And therein lies THE FLAW in our Electoral System. All the Democrats need is a few corrupt counties ( e.g. Maricopa in Arizona or Fulton in Georgia) within key states to swing the presidency in their favor REGARDLESS of WHO their candidate is, even mentally disabled ones like Joe Biden or John Fetterman.
I fully expect a Democrat to be the President in 2024 and in perpetuity. Polls he damned. Ignore them, they don’t tell us who will win. The machinery is the deciding factor.
more like Constitutional Zero!!
It’s not a flaw.
The Constitutional structure SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDES federal officeholders AND courts from supervision of the States, who are supposed to choose the President.
It’s a Union of States, much degraded from its origin but still, on paper, a group of sovereign, equal partners. States have let their powers lapse to a shocking degree, but they still exist.
RE: States have let their powers lapse to a shocking degree, but they still exist.
And therein lies the flaw, whether we consider it as such or not.
Not in that moment, if the Senators are in overwhelming agreement. However two caveats. First, rarely are all Senators in overwhelming agreement. Second, as I've said, their judgement is not final. It is just the first judgement given. The courts can be sought out if it is believed that judgment is unfair. Trump forgo'd this option to pursue it further. Any anger or disappointment more wasn't done should be directed at him.
That’s like saying if there are enough Senators who interpret the second amendment to mean that the government has the right to take your firearms for the cause of national security, they are right in doing so
That is a different circumstance, that they don't get to judge on their own. That would require the House, and the President, to enact a law. But the electoral college vote, is conducted in the Senate, alone.
I’m afraid that with the Senate controlled by Democrats, and a few Trump-hating Republicans like Romney and Murkowski, the future isn’t going to look good
Not for people like Trump, who want to challenge an electoral college vote with little proof of actual fraud. As I've said repeatedly, his complaint was that there was an opportunity for fraud, not that there was actual fraud. He could have brought more evidence, once he had actual legal standing. He did not want to comply with the law, which requires actual evidence, and standing. He wanted to short circuit the process, and rightfully failed.
And how can you give proof of electoral fraud unless you first stop the certification process and give the protester time to present evidence?
You try to gather proof of fraud before the electoral college vote, not just examples of opportunity for fraud, which is not actual fraud. If you can't provide that in time, then you wait your turn, to present the evidence later. At which point you should have actual legal standing, if you were declared the official loser. Trump refused to wait, and once he had standing, presented nothing. He wanted special treatment, which was not granted, by anyone, possibly because he has alienated so many.
Was the testimony of Jesse Morgan ( as one example), the truck driver who claimed that he delivered large volumes of mail for the U.S. Postal Service, and said a trailer he hauled from New York to Lancaster on Oct. 21, 2020, was full of ballots already filled out by Pennsylvania voters ever considered? Those ballots, he said, went missing after he parked the truck trailer at the Post Office on Harrisburg Pike that evening. Was this ( but one example) ever considered by ANY Senate or Congressional panel , much less a court of law?
I remember this specifically, and was outraged when I first heard it. What he said is very suspicious, obviously, but it was Trump's responsibility to look into it further, not Congress. What did Trump do about it? Probably nothing, best I can tell. Do you know of any investigation by Trump into it? Your outrage should be at his inaction. And what did he do about the video, I still have posted on my FR homepage, showing his vote totals going backwards on live national TV? Nothing, best I can tell. And I am outraged he's never even mentioned it, once, much less investigated it.
TRUMP WAS STILL PRESIDENT WHEN ALL THIS HAPPENED. He is the one who failed to investigate these outrages. After 2.5 years, we still haven't heard anything about that driver, have we. He never investigated those vote totals going backwards on live national TV, that I can tell. He tried for ~1 month, to make his case, then blamed it all on Pence, and ran to the hills until 2022.
.What are you even talking about???
The Electoral College vote is CONDUCTED in 50 State capitals, and is certified THERE:
"The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign AND CERTIFY, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate"
The votes are COUNTED in a Special Joint Session of Congress, in front of all 435 Members of Congress and all 100 Senators, with the President of the Senate in the chair - although, in the past, the President Pro Tempore of the Senate has played that role.
Thanks for the additional detail. The point was, and remains, the Congress is the controlling legal authority during the proceeding.
RE: The courts can be sought out if it is believed that judgment is unfair. Trump forgo’d this option to pursue it further. Any anger or disappointment more wasn’t done should be directed at him.
How many lawsuits were filed in court by Trump and his allies?
Republicans filed the lawsuits in local, state, and federal courts in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, and Pennsylvania — all states that Biden won. They also filed direct appeals to the Supreme Court, all of which also failed.
The Trump campaign initially had a single win, when a Pennsylvania judge ruled on November 12 that first-time voters were supposed to confirm their IDs with county boards of election by November 9, rather than November 12. The decision opened the door to disqualify the ballots of people who didn’t verify their IDs in time. But the Pennsylvania state Supreme Court later overturned that decision.
The Trump campaign asked the US Supreme Court to overturn three decisions from the Pennsylvania Supreme Court over various technical rules regarding absentee and mail-in ballots. The court rejected the case on February 22, declaring it moot.
A group of Pennsylvania Republicans lost at the state Supreme Court with a lawsuit trying to invalidate absentee voting after the voting period already ended, and trying to block the certification of election results.
The Trump campaign filed a motion to intervene in a Supreme Court case brought by Republicans that centers on the deadline by which Pennsylvania officials are allowed to receive ballots. Pennsylvania’s Supreme Court ruled that officials could receive ballots until November 6 as long as they are postmarked by Election Day. Republicans appealed the decision to the high court, which was deadlocked at 4-4 because Justice Amy Coney Barrett did not participate, leaving the lower court’s ruling in place. The Supreme Court signaled it could hear the case again but has not granted the request to intervene.
In violation of PA law (25 PA. Stat. §3154), the election was certified with a massive excess of ballots over voters. To be clear, I am talking about the excess of ballots over registered voters who actually voted (not the excess over all registered voters).
The 202,000 voter deficit was a key reason many Republicans, including at least 16 members of the Pennsylvania Assembly, wanted Vice President Mike Pence to delay announcement of the electors for 10 days. They naively thought there is supposed to be just one ballot for every voter. Details, details.
THAT WAS JUST PENNSYLVANIA.
A requested review by the Trump campaign of Georgia’s Fulton County’s 147,000 mail-in paper ballots has been continuously blocked by the Georgia Secretary of State.
Prior to the 2020 election, the Michigan Secretary of State, Jocelyn Benson, said signature matching was the best way to authenticate ballots. After making that statement, however, Benson gutted the signature standard by telling election clerks to “presume” signatures were valid. So, there was absolutely no way to authenticate ballots in Michigan.
Trump sued to require signature verification, and HE WON — four months after the election! Long after Biden had already enacted policies that were detrimental to the country as (questionable ) president.
That is when a judge ruled that Jocelyn Benson had broken the law. Due to her actions, the Michigan election is invalid, and should be decertified.
SEE HERE:
In Maricopa County,Arizona, a panel of six people, including three document examiners, determined that 12 percent of sampled mail-in ballots appeared to be phony.
It was a six to zero decision that implies that 204,000 mail-in ballots were phony, countywide. That would be almost 20 times Biden’s winning margin. No one has successfully challenged this state-of-the-art test, prepared by Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai. SEE HERE:
Just a few of the anomalies that should have been looked into. These are not examples of “opportunities” ( your words ) of fraud. These are EVIDENCES of fraud.
I could add more of the documented evidences, but there is sufficient evidence of fraud. You mentioned “you can’t provide that in time” <-— Ahhh, herein lies the problem — gathering the evidence REQUIRES LOTS OF TIME, which Trup did not have.
As I said before, I see very little evidence that these anomalies have been fixed. With this, I very much expect these to happen again in 2024 and the very same reason you provide ( which would include not having enough time to gather evidence ) to be used as an excuse.
AS I said before, because these problems have not been addressed and the evidences NOT looked into, I DO NOT forsee a Republican President to ever win againb in my lifetime.
In my mind, Pence has become his wife.
I saw her with great big smiles when in the company of Dimrats, NEVER, in the company of conservatives
I shall be happy to see the last of both of them.
Trump did do a hell of a job despite a disloyal, traitorous opposition that lied and smeared him. That opposition included the corporate MSM and an entrenched deep state. These people at their core are disloyal globalists who did all they could to undermine an American President who put America first and understood capitalism. My only criticism of Trump is he did not select or was not served well by key appointees.Voted for Trump twice and will do so again. De Santis did a very credible job in Florida. Believe Ryan and Gowdy had more to do letting Hillary Clinton off the hook but those were not De Santis’ best moments. De Santis has scuttled his political career by having his head filled with grandeur taking advice from the likes of Karl Rove and the bitter Bush family. The Democrats feared a Trump/De Santis ticket in 2024. De Santis credibly could have become President in 2028. Now he has no real future and the Democrats will not face what would have been a very formidable ticket. all these politicians are a bit narcissistic, have eccentrical personalities and huge egos. De Santis should have put up with Trump’s eccentrics, served the country and America would have been better.Frankly doubt it will survive four more years of Democrat globalist policies.
Not enough, obviously. And all were filed in the first month after the election, before he even had actual legal standing. After that, nothing.
Trump sued to require signature verification, and HE WON — four months after the election!
Court cases take time. Did he ever follow up? No, he was long gone by early 2021.
It was a six to zero decision that implies that 204,000 mail-in ballots were phony, countywide. That would be almost 20 times Biden’s winning margin. No one has successfully challenged this state-of-the-art test, prepared by Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai.
Dr. Shiva did the work, but Trump gave him no support, and was long gone by then. Dr. Shiva no longer supports Trump because of it, in case you didn't know.
Ahhh, herein lies the problem — gathering the evidence REQUIRES LOTS OF TIME, which Trump did not have.
What do you mean he hasn't had time? He's had 2.5 years. And $250 million that was donated to him in just the month of December 2020 specifically to fight it. Yet, he chose not to fight anything in court after J6. He never even paid Rudy Giuliani for his legal services during that time, he totally punched out and didn't even pay his lawyer bills that were due.
As I said before, I see very little evidence that these anomalies have been fixed.
I completely agree. But Trump is the one who's done nothing. He is good at complaining, but little else. And we will all pay for his inaction in the next election. Some hero.
AS I said before, because these problems have not been addressed and the evidences NOT looked into, I DO NOT forsee a Republican President to ever win againb in my lifetime.
Trump won't win again, that is for sure. As for other Republicans, they will win again, because, they will draw from a totally different group of voters, than Trump does. He's a populist/nationalist, not a conservative. Populism is definitely more of a leftist "victim" philosophy, and nationalism can even be communist. Conservatism, which is based on good morals, limited government, and honest brokerage, will return I believe. Even if it doesn't, I won't abandon it for immorality, big government, nasty language and dirty tricks.
RE: What do you mean he hasn’t had time?
What I meant was he didn’t have enough time nor the support of Senate or the courts to present the evidence to prevent Biden from taking over the presidency. I’m not talking about 2.5 years hence.
RE: Dr. Shiva no longer supports Trump because of it, in case you didn’t know.
No I did not know. Who does he support among the current batch of candidates?
But regardless, the issues he raised are still VALID and still there.
RE: Trump won’t win again, that is for sure. As for other Republicans, they will win again, because, they will draw from a totally different group of voters, than Trump does
OK, at least we agree on Trump not winning in 2024, but I’m not sure if our reasoning are the same. My reasoning is because the system that allowed the Democrats to get away with electing a demented candidate for president is STILL in place.
With this, I’m not sure what you mean by Republicans will win again. I’m not talking about LOCAL elections, I’m talking about the PRESIDENTIAL elections. I think the Democrats have it under their belt for my lifetime. Even if you can find a true conservative to run, he cannot win with the system still in place.
Aside from the voting system in place in key states, Changing Democraphics, a rising youth that has been educated by woke public schools and a combination of Deep State operators PLUS Big tech will ensure a Democrat White House in perpetuity.
I’m glad there are people like you who are optimistic about the eventual triumphant return of conservatism. I’m not so optimistic for the reasons I just presented.
Dr. Shiva is running for President himself this time. He makes a good case that neither of these blowhards in charge of either party can be trusted. And he knows all about Trump, first hand.
https://rumble.com/v2t50eg-interview-dr.-shiva-a-different-kind-of-presidential-campaign.html
As I said, Trump isn’t a conservative, and once he is gone, Republicans will win the Presidency again. The party will reunite back around our principles, and many people who have been alienated by Trump’s selfish antics will return.
Obviously because there’s no other viable alternative. Here are the choices, from worst to best:
1. Vote for a Democrat like RFK Jr. because your Republican standard bearer abandoned you on something real important to you, like warp speed “vaccines.” Democrats win.
2. Don’t vote. Democrats win.
3. Vote 3rd Party. Democrats win.
4. Vote for the most conservative candidates you can find in the Republican primaries, and use that to try to pull the Republican party to the right. Some conservatives get in, govern well, and grow conservatism.
It’s the only real option. Delusional is thinking that 1, 2, or 3 is a better option than 4.
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