Supreme Court rules 5-4 against Navajo Nation in water rights dispute

SCOTUS Blog ^ | June 22, 2023 | Matthew L.M. Fletcher

[CedarDave]

Excellent discussion of the decision. Whether one may agree or disagree with the decision or with Justice Gorsuch's dissent, issues arising from the 1868 Navajo Nation treaty still are being litigated today, after 155 years of controversy.

[Dr. Sivana]

We got LOTS of rain last winter. One problem in AZ is that the Saudis are sucking out groundwater for high water need crops that will be exported. Not the best use of a finite resource.

[Leaning Right]

Excellent discussion, except that every bad thing is (again) the fault of climate change:

“The decision was released as worldwide climate change has begun to dramatically dry up the desert southwest.”

[moovova]

The Trail of Dry Tears.

[desertsolitaire]

I have had a thought.
If there is such need for potable water in the desert SouthWest US, and the Antarctic ice sheets are such a feared variable in melting and raising global sea levels....
Why not move heaven and earth to transport (secure and tow?) the “ dangerous fresh-water glacial ice sheet from Antarctica to the Desert SouthWest to be put to good use? I suspect its an easier engineering feat than terraforming Mars for human habitation... Thoughts?

[moovova]

Seriously, we’ve had rain for 8 days, with the prediction of 4 more days of rain. Every. Single. Day. I don’t remember getting this much rain for this long. I’d almost think there was something to this Global Precipitation crisis.

[monkeyshine]

Interesting case. Seems to all hinge on the Treaty itself. Doesn’t mean they don’t have other rights, or ability to negotiate or lobby Congress (or the state) for water rights.

I agree a lot of water is “wasted” on luxury agricultural items. It is wasted in private swimming pools too. And baths. There is plenty of water on earth. With “sea levels rising” as they say, sounds like a good time to invest in desalination. We can clean the sea water and pile the brine up in Arizona and Nevada. And in the process prevent the oceans from drowning New York!

Trouble is, as short supply for water is - it is still not as valuable as oil. So not much interest in large scale water piping projects let alone desalination construction.

[monkeyshine]

dramatically dry up the desert

Uh huh. If it wasn't dramatically dry, it wouldn't be called a desert.

[Southside_Chicago_Republican]

Bookmark

[coloradan]

“The decision was released as worldwide climate change has begun to dramatically dry up the desert southwest.”

This statement assumes facts not in evidence. Left unmentioned is the possible increase in draw from the much larger population, golf courses, the NSA’s need for cooling water in its Utah Center For Violations Of All Citizen’s Fourth Amendment Rights, etc. Nope, just “climate change”.

[Dr. Sivana]

I agree a lot of water is “wasted” on luxury agricultural items. It is wasted in private swimming pools too. And baths.

And here in Phoenix . . . GOLF COURSES!

At least with a swimming pool, you fill it once, and you use the same water for a long time. Even car washes reuse some water. But gold courses?

Years ago, I won a corporate trip to Super Bowl XXX, but was obliged to go to some golf event. There I was in the middle of the desert, everything lush and green, except for one patch that the sprinklers missed, a reminder of what this place is REALLY like.

[CedarDave]

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[Lockbox]

My suggestion is for The Nation to place pumps along the Colorado River where it touches their nation and take all the water they need. Too bad the US did not include that in the deal and since The Nation is a separate and let the UN enter into the deal. Tie the deal up in different governments, courts and other entities but keep pumping....

[ProtectOurFreedom]

Where are you getting all this rain?

It’s quite cold and dry here in the Inland Northwest. It is finally forecasted to warm up in the next week to ten days. Evenings and night times are still sweatshirt, sweater, and jacket weather.

[Valpal1]

“worldwide climate change has begun to dramatically dry up the desert southwest.”

I get so tired of this bogus claim. If global warming actually melts the ice sheets, there will be more water in the water cycle and more effing rain every where. Less desert, more vegetation.

[monkeyshine]

Indeed. I heard the humidity levels in Las Vegas have been rising greatly over the last two decades because of the massive housing developments, the lawns and golf courses, pools and maybe that gigantic fountain at the Bellagio (which is, to their credit, filled with grey water). It’s supposed to be arid - dry heat. But 112 AND humid? Blech.

[ProtectOurFreedom]

The Nation had argued that the 1868 treaty did more than establish bare property rights. The Old Paper, it said, established an ongoing relationship between the tribe and the United States, often referred to as the general trust relationship or the duty of protection, that placed obligations on the federal government to act to fulfill the purposes of the treaty. It also argued that Indian land cession treaties necessarily granted a reservation the right to enough water to maintain its land. The Nation relied on the canons of construing Indian treaties, which requires the judiciary to interpret treaty language as tribal treaty negotiators would have understood it. The majority instead characterized the Nation’s argument as a demand to “rewrite and update this 155-year-old treaty.”

I've lived many years close to tribal reservations in upstate New York and North Idaho, so this strikes me as yet another in a long line of abuses of the natives in North America. How can we grant them reservations but not provide enough water?

I'm yet again reminded of what happened to this maiden...

[Vigilanteman]

Yep. As far back as the 1960s when I was still a wee lad, I remember discussion of the lunacy of the government paying farmers in the southeast NOT to grow cotton while farmers in Arizona were subsidized to grow cotton.

Rumors were that it was LBJ's revenge for most states in that region voting against his landslide reelection in 1964. But since Arizona voted against him as well, that didn't make a lot of sense to me.

[MinorityRepublican]

Neil Gorsuch is usually good but he's squishy when it comes to Native Americans. The Americans came and conquered the land. Might is right. As simple as that. It's done with. We are giving Native Americans their casinos and some exemptions from taxes so they can sell tobacco for cheap. That should be about it.

One more Justice, we'll have the Supreme Court give all the land back to the Native Americans. You can't do that lol.

[Dr. Sivana]

But since Arizona voted against him as well, that didn't make a lot of sense to me.

Arizona might have gotten a pass as it was Goldwater's home state.