Posted on 05/31/2023 6:38:19 AM PDT by marcusmaximus
And I, for one, would be embarrassed by supporting our enemy Russia and repeating their lies. But, do you want Ivan.
You are wrong once again, sir. An Australian news outlet (TV) ran with the story with video footage. Of course, in true Western media fake news, they reported it was the Russians that did the bombings. Makes total sense that the Russians would bomb the same people they have attempted to liberate. /sarc
By the way, what's the weather like in your land of delusion?
Typical false assumption. I support neither side. Why does everyone have to pick a 'side'? Once you've chosen a side, you then look for confirming evidence to perpetuate your beliefs and dismiss any information that challenges your world view.
Question everything.
So you can’t do it, eh?
Got a link for that, sport?
There isn’t anything to question Russia is our enemy and has been for the last 100 years. We thought that changed when Communism fell, but it did not.
Russia’s actions in the past year have been a clear cut act of aggression that threatens the rest of Europe and eventually us as well. This is an opportunity to end that problem by ending Russia’s military advantage real and imagined so it cannot or will not hurt any one else including us.
Many observers believe that if Russia loses it will split up and definitely reduce future problems.
It was broadcast on 10 News First out of Australia.
Also found a report about it here:
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3715765-two-killed-eight-injured-as-russians-drop-aerial-bombs-on-donetsk-regions-toretsk.html
from a Ukranian source. The narrative, of course is that the Russians bombed themselves.
Unfortunately, the world does not agree with you.
Evidence?
The ever growing BRICS countries. There are 30 more countries looking to join with a GDP greater than the G7. This list also includes Japan. Russia and China are making huge gains in Africa with those countries looking to de-dolarize ASAP.
But there is actually a reason for Putin’s softness, but I’ll leave it as an exercise to the student to try to figure it out.
*********
Answer: Putin has to fix the Russian military first.
I stand corrected, Kadryov is a Chechen dare I say in a sea of Cossaks? - Terek Cossaks, Volga Cossaks and Black Sea little doubt had extensive dealings with Chechens and Ingush during their mass deportations in the 1860’s. How much the Cossak war culture influenced the present day Chechen war and separatist culture would be an interesting study.
Uh, doesn't that suggest that the Russians DID do the bombing? Your assertion makes no sense, based on the source you just posted.
Pound Sand.
I'm just relaying what is reported. You can believe what you want. I find it implausible that the Russians benefit in any way bombing citizens they are attempting to liberate.
Everything about this conflict stinks. The bio-labs, the targeting of civilians, the wasted money, the money laundering, that NO ONE is trying to have a conversation about peace. It seems like we are on a steady pace of just an all out war with no brakes. Insanity.
What Zaporizhzhia doink?
“Answer: Putin has to fix the Russian military first.”
Europe learned THE HARD WAY that the above wasn’t true.
I decided to try to find some more detailed deaths in Donbas figures, 2014 to 2021 and found this very comprehensive link covering that region and time period. It also has 660 References. More tidbits from there below the link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas_(2014%E2%80%932022)#External_links
“Yanukovych administration and the Party of Regions signed cooperation agreements with Vladimir Putin’s Unified Russia party, the Chinese Communist Party and the Socialist group in the European Parliament”[55] [It appears when people voted for Zelenskyy they were moving away from Communist and Socialist associations. ]
Analysts have stated that as of February 2014, Russia was able to:[56]
* Control gas shipments to Ukraine, (in the past few years, it has twice turned off the flow of gas to the country to force the hands of Ukrainian leaders);
* Manipulate the price of gas to Ukraine’s fiscal disadvantage;
* Arbitrarily impose trade restrictions on Ukrainian exports;
Flood Ukraine with television propaganda highlighting alleged Western interference in Ukraine’s internal affairs and the threat of fascism;
* Infiltrate Ukrainian security forces to stage provocations that would discredit the opposition (there have been persistent but unsubstantiated reports of Russian special forces being involved in kidnappings, beatings, and even sniping against the Ukrainian opposition);
* Stir up secessionist sentiment in ethnic Russian areas such as Crimea and Donetsk.
And that by all signs, the Kremlin also maintained a tight hold on Yanukovych.[57]” [From these Russian activities, it would appear Ukraine as a whole had good reason to be against the Yanukovych administration.]
“While the initial protests were largely native expressions of discontent with the new Ukrainian government, Russia took advantage of them to launch a coordinated political and military campaign against Ukraine.[59] Russian citizens led the separatist movement in Donetsk from April until August 2014, and were supported by volunteers and materiel from Russia.[60][61][62] As the conflict escalated in May 2014, Russia employed a “hybrid approach”, deploying a combination of disinformation, irregular fighters, regular Russian troops, and conventional military support to destabilize the Donbas.[63][64][65]” [Note Russia entered Crimea for conquest in March 2014. These events ended exploration agreements for gas and oil Ukraine had signed in 2012 with US oil companies for search around Crimea and in east Ukraine.]
NOW for some CASUALTY FIGURES
The estimated number of fatalities in the Donbas war was 14,200–14,400 by the end of December 2021, including non-combat military deaths. According to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, 6,500 were pro-Russian separatist forces, 4,400 were Ukrainian forces, and 3,404 were civilians.[15] The vast majority of deaths were in the first two years of the war (2014 and 2015).
CIVILIANS
* According to the United Nations, 3,404 civilians were killed in the war and more than 7,000 were injured. The vast majority of civilian deaths were in the first two years of the war, while 365 civilians were killed in the six years from 2016 to 2021. In the year before Russia’s full-scale invasion, 25 civilians were killed, over half of them from mines and unexploded ordnance.[15]
* Of the civilian deaths, at least 312 were foreigners: 298 passengers and crew of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17,[15] 11 Russian journalists,[590] an Italian journalist,[591] a Lithuanian diplomat,[592] and one Russian civilian killed in cross-border shelling.[593]
* Of the 3,106 conflict-related civilian deaths, not counting the fatalities from the shoot down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17: 1,852 were men, 1,072 women, 102 boys, 50 girls and 30 adults whose sex is unknown.[15]
UKRANIAN FORCES
* Ukraine reported that 4,647 of its servicemen had been killed by late February 2022, including 262 foreign-born Ukrainian citizens or foreigners.[11][12][13][c] Another 70 Ukrainian soldiers were missing.[14]
* Pro-Russian sources claimed Ukrainian forces had 10,000 killed, 20,000 wounded and 13,500 deserted or missing, by late June 2015.[594]
SEPARATIST FORCES
* The separatists reported that they had lost 1,400 men at most by February 2015.[595] The UN reported 6,500 separatists were killed by the end of December 2021.[15]
* Ukraine claimed 7,577[596][597] separatists had been killed and 12,000 were missing[598] by early 2015. They claimed an additional 103 Russian servicemen were killed between January and April 2016.[599]
* An image of a reported separatist graveyard in Donetsk in late February 2015,[600] showed numbers running up to at least 2,213.[601] In late August 2015, according to a reported leak by a Russian news site, Business Life (Delovaya Zhizn), 2,000 Russian soldiers had been killed in Ukraine by February 2015.[602][603] The US Department of State reported that 400–500 Russian soldiers had been killed by March 2015.[604]
* Between January 2017 and late February 2022, DPR separatist authorities reported that a total of 677 separatist fighters had been killed in DPR-controlled territory.[605]
[The above link details the Minsk I and II peace efforts, and much else. I have seen an interesting chart with deaths arranged by years. Tomorrow I may find it. Good night all.]
Source: Dec 2021 report, ombudsman-dnr.ru
The overview of the current social and humanitarian situation
in the territory of the Donetsk People`s Republic as a result of
hostilities between 25 and 30 December 2021
Within the period between 1 January and 30 December 2021, in the
territory of the DPR, 129 people sustained injuries ...
97 servicemen of the Republic and 32 civilians.
Within the period between 1 January and 30 December 2021, in the
territory of the DPR, 7 civilians and 70 servicemen of the
Republic died ...
The 2020 data did make it into a published report, and here it is. (Opens in new window)
2020 ANNUAL REPORT of the Human Rights Ombudsman in the Donetsk People’s Republic
Pertinent pages are 20-25, so the above link jumps to page 20.
Excerpts from page 21:
Comparative diagram representing death toll, as of 1 December 2020
It is worth noting that the signing of peace agreements helped
to reduce the intensity of hostilities. Thus, the number of deaths
among the residents of the Donetsk People's Republic decreased by
9 times in 2017 compared to 2014, in 2019 – almost by 17 times,
in 2020 – by 50 times...
At the same time, a decrease in casualties among the civilian
population was facilitated by the unlimited truce announced in
Donbass on 21 July 2019.
Since 1 January 2020, as a result of the armed conflict in the
territory of the Donetsk People's Republic, 44 people have been
killed (Diagram 6).
No matter how many times the pro-Putin trolls dredge up this allegation, the FSB's own monitors couldn't substantiate EITHER the allegations of "ongoing genocide" or "imminent genocide". All we've ever seen in support of either claim is a statement without any evidence to back it up. And the evidence that has been collected, including the records of Putin's conversations with Zelenskyy (which are published on the Kremlin website) actually show that Russia's "peacekeeping" argument for military intervention in Ukraine was strongest in 2014-2016 and pretty much ceased to have any validity by Christmas 2019.
GENOCIDE IN DONBAS WAS A FALSE FLAG.
Your chart does show the trend in casualties I was aware. I am wondering if I saw one that had figures separated for both sides, but showed similar trends for both. At any rate, Putin had no basis for invasion based on the people being killed by the time he implemented the planning and positioning of troops and materiel in 2021 and 2022.
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