Posted on 05/21/2023 3:14:41 AM PDT by Timber Rattler
And why is there still fighting in the streets, as of yesterday?
At any rate, Bakhmut, formerly the 56th largest city in Ukraine, is now a worthless pile of rubble that has little strategic value. So are those tens of thousands of Russians lives lost attacking it over the last ten months worth it?
The Ukes, by their own admission, are holding onto a few fortified “residences,” in the city boundary, and some strategic hills just to the west of the city.
Until Wagner PMC ships out.
So are you preparing the “information space” here for that eventuality?
The way you know this entire war is a Scam on the part of the USA and Europe.
Granted, I’m no military expert, but if you fight a war, it would be wise to start the war with the most and best equipment possible, otherwise why fight a war while being handicapped.
First, the USA said there is no way we are going to provide Ukraine with HIMARS or Long Range Artillery, only to reverse that decision and provide both.
Then we said, there is no way we would provide Tanks or Armored Vehicles, only to reverse that decision and provide both.
Then we said, there is no way we will provide long range strategic missiles that can hit deep into Russia only to reverse that decision and provide them.
Finally, we said, there is no way we will provide advanced fighter jets like the F-16s, only to now reverse that decision.
If the goal is supposed to be defeating Russia and driving them out of Ukraine, why would you not provide everything in terms of weapons to do that. Unless to goal is to not really win the war but prolong it as long as possible and slowly escalate up to who know when.
If you neocons had a lick of common sense today would be the day that you retire your scream name and evolve into someone else. If you had a lick of common sense. If.
I think we’ll see a lot of users go dark once they find out they’ve been used.
Because the war was started by Russia, and Ukraine refused to be conquered. The West has been caught attempting to catch up.
Your observations show the whole idea the war was started by the West is idiotic.
First, I never said who started the war, I could care less at this point.
The American Public has been told the goal is to defeat Russia and drive them out of Ukraine.
Regardless of what the goal is, it’s still a war.
If you are going to fight a war it’s only logical to fight it with everything available to win.
Could the USA and the West provided F-16s a year ago ??
Could the USA and the West provided Tanks a year ago ??
I could go on; the point is we are not really fighting the war to win because we would have given Ukraine everything they needed to fight and win a long time ago.
The Ukrainians may still be holding out in the mines. Whether the tunnels reach far enough west to allow resupply underground is not clear. 125 miles of tunnels is a lot of tunnels. You need to seize and seal off all the access points.
The ‘Underground Cities’ of the Soledar and Bakhmut Salt Mines
https://www.newsweek.com/underground-cities-soledar-bakhmut-salt-mines-prigozhin-1772325
>>”The system of Soledar and Bakhmut mines, which is actually a network of underground cities, can not only [hold] a big group of people at a depth of 80-100 meters, but also tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, which can move about there,” he wrote.
>>He was referring to the network of salt mines, caves and 125 miles of tunnels.
That sentence only makes sense if you have a choice to "start the war".
The problem for Russia is this... They are running out of weapons... The west will never run out of weapons.
Remember when Russia claimed they took Berlin... Well... They did and they didn’t... The west moved in and there was East Berlin... Their territory and West Berlin... Our territory... Now it’s all our territory because everybody hates Communist and Communism... That’s Putin main problem... He likes Communism... Nobody else does... So he’s going to lose, like Communist always do in the end. As for their claim that they’ve taken Bakhmut... Communist always lie... Always have always will. It’s the essence of their philosophy.
Like I said, regardless of who started the war, it’s still a war, if the goal is to win and drive Russia out of Ukraine, either we don’t want to win but prolong the war and gradually escalate or it’s just plain incompetence.
You can’t discount incompetence on the part of the Biden Administration, but the point remains, we could have provided Ukraine with much more capable weapons earlier but chose for some reason not to.
It gets tiresome listening to the anti war left here make up their own “logic”.
So now a rambling “thesis” about how you “would fight a war” so that means we aren’t fighting to win and the war is a “scam”, on and on....
It’s so much easier for the left to make things up.
First, this argument contradicts the claim by most of them that we plan to “attack Russia” and start WW3. Obviously, withholding the best equipment from Ukraine doesn’t support that.
Reality, something they hate to apply, is that Biden and the West expected Ukraine to fall in two weeks, and they had no desire to fight Russia in Ukraine.
Over time and as Ukraine held out, there was pressure to resist Russia.
Still, there has been a reluctance to avoid giving Ukraine weapons that take the war deeper into Russia, and might cause the Russians to escalate to nukes, or to expand the war into NATO countries.
This has been the obvious reality, but it doesn’t comport with their ridiculous claims that the leftist Biden administration are “neocons” which should have been disproven long ago by the withdrawal from Afghanistan And sell outs to China, Iran, etc, while alienating allies such as Saudi Arabia.
But the anti war left always throws whatever mud it can pick up during its protests.
Responding to their endless fantasies is tiring.
The truth is......Bakhmut was. Bakhmut isn’t
But Ukraine paid a heavy price in blood in trying to hold onto that supposedly “worthless” city. Simplicius provides the details of the Ukrainian military obituary:
Why is Bakhmut called a Meat Grinder?
Who was decimated in Bakhmut:
Brigades:
45th Brigade
43rd Brigade
26th Brigade
28th Brigade
62nd Brigade
63rd Brigade
53rd Brigade
60th Brigade
24th Brigade
57th Brigade
30th Brigade
Advance Rubizh Brigade
Advance Azov Brigade
Advance Uragan Brigade
Advance Spartan Brigade
109th Brigade
116th Brigade
119th Brigade
241st Brigade
93rd Brigade
77th Brigade
46th Brigade
4th Brigade
17th Brigade
61st Brigade of Jaegers
Special Forces and Spetsnaz Regiments:
5th Assault Regiment 8th Regiment of Special Forces
Kraken Battalions:
122nd Battalion
68th Battalion
49th Rifle Battalion
15th Mountain Assault Battalion
Omega
Border Guard Donetsk
8th Regiment of the UDAR UAVs:
Shershen
Adam
Karlsen
Terra
Skala
Madyar
Khartia
Kep
Seneka
WASP Legions:
Dudaev Battalion
Georgian Legion
Mansur Battalion
Shamil Battalion
Gonor
Normandy Legion
Most of these battalions have suffered more than 70% casualties just against PMC Wagner.
The twenty five brigades listed above represents a force of atleast 50,000 men (assuming only 2000 men in a reduced brigade) and as many as 125,000. Simplicius also lists at least 9 battalions and 5 regiments — that is 4500 and 5000 additional troops respectively. Do the math. If Ukraine deployed 134,500 troops to the battle for Bakhmut, 70% casualties means that Ukraine suffered as many as 94,150 killed and wounded.
UH, the flag in that video is not flying over anything, and you can still hear fighting going on behind those buildings.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
