Posted on 05/04/2023 8:22:08 AM PDT by ChicagoConservative27
Don’t be selfish. Be generous. Be generous with your money, not with other people’s money.
Be generous with worldly advice and tell Texans that they really shouldn’t have good jobs supplying American energy to Europe. They’d be much better off working at Walmart. Right?
Ha, yes. Trump had his missteps on the foreign policy front. But compared to the dopes who came before and after him, he was a genius.
The war would end immediately if Putin would cancel his invasion, and pull out his troops.
Regards,
“Stupid people” want to enrich those threatening to nuke us. “Stupid people” would rather Europeans will buy Russian energy and not American. “Stupid People” do not want NATO allies who strengthening our defense and buy American. “Stupid People” are America Last indeed.
He pretty much got a pass on invading and annexing Crimea right after the Sochi Olympics ended in 2014, so the reaction to the second bite of the apple that started in February of last year was a rude awakening to him.
Assuming Russians were to advance to the Polish border, that would leave Putin with a giant problem that he wants no part of yet has no plan to evade. That would take the form of a viper’s nest of terrorism, hate, and revanche in what would be called a Western Ukrainian “rump state”.
Missing from the picture is somebody willing and able to serve as the honest broker to ride herd over that rump state and that honest broker would have to get some benefit from it. The obvious answer to that one is the Chinese, who need a path through Ukraine for their New Silk Road Scheme.
Donald Trump as the reinstated legitimate US president would enter the picture as the guy who could sell this idea to Western leaders and who in the West, Russians could deal with and halfway trust.
For such a plan to work of course, Biden and the people who put him in power have to be gotten rid of almost immediately. We do not have time for an impeachment process or any other kind of games.
Without the steal, the Russian rescue mission you speak of would not have been necessary.
Both sides are in a hard spot. Both sides want their pound of flesh, throw in the collective West shouting war, war, war. The Ukies justify their stance citing invasion, ( correct),the Russian people cite the bombing of Donetsk non stop since 2014and the Ukie nationalist Odessa Russia Trade Union massacre, ( correct).
Throw in the US calls for war, war, war and here we are. Take out the western intervention from the equation, and the war will cease.
LOL, non stop bombing of Donetsk? Right, Russian side just wanted peace and it was only the evil Ukrainian army that was firing artillery. Another Russian myth.
On January 27, 2022, the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights released its most recent estimate of the victims of the Donbass conflict from 2014 to December 31, 2021 According to the U.N., 10,900 victims were soldiers, of which 4,400 were Ukrainians and 6,500 pro-Russian combatants of or on behalf of the separatist pseudo-republics. Civilian victims were between 3,400 and 3,500.
https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related%20civilian%20casualties%20as%20of%2031%20December%202021%20%28rev%2027%20January%202022%29%20corr%20EN_0.pdf
Non stop bombing? TOTAL OF 25 CIVILIAN DEATHS IN 2021 AND 26 IN 2020.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293409/civilian-deaths-related-to-russia-ukraine-conflict/
I wonder how he’d do that? I am still waiting for Mexico to pay for the wall.
Trump probably thinks he can force Ukraine to cede the regions currently occupied by Russian forces, and end the war that way, but the Ukrainians may not be cooperative.
“For such a plan to work of course, Biden and the people who put him in power have to be gotten rid of almost immediately. We do not have time for an impeachment process or any other kind of games.”
Not bad. It took nine years to get there but maybe finally you understand the reasons why Yanukovych got deposed instead of impeached. He had to go.
Yanukovych was on the Kremlin payroll, sold his country out in December 2013, enabled the invasion of the country he was sworn to protect. You cannot leave a traitor in office for years, gaming the system while selling his country out.
If you aren’t prepared to tolerate Biden doing it, what on earth makes you think Ukraine should’ve just let Yanukovych orchestrate the invasion of his country while high on the hog in a Moscow safe house?
As to your other bullets, in order: 1: yes, 2: yes.
3: That’s utter projection from a regime that broke every single promise made to Ukraine Minsk 0 (Belovezha), Minsk 2, the Russo Ukrainian treaty 1990, the Constituent Act of the CIS 1991, the Budapest Memorandum 1994, the Treaty on Friendship 1997 and the Russo Ukrainian Border Treaty 2003. Russia agreed to remove its forces from Ukraine in Minsk 2 and then started denying any Russians were there (while naming the buggers in despatches).
4: Now, don’t be silly - the only reason most Ukrainians can speak and read Russian is because decades of Soviet occupation forced them ALL to learn it... Ukrainian only got promoted over Russian after independence but Russian remains ubiquitous. So “all Russian speaking areas “ basically means the entire country, but probably includes half of every independent nation state that used to be a SSR. Nobody would be dumb enough to concede that all territories occupied by the USSR should be subservient to Moscow thirty years after Russia voluntarily dismantled the Soviet Union.
5: toughshitski.no other country on the planet needs a 500 mile buffer zone let alone a buffer zone the width of Ukraine. If Moscow is that paranoid and really can’t cope without that big a buffer zone, it’s got 11 time zones FFA, just move their bastard capitol to the central Caucasus.
6: True. But nobody is threatening Russia with anything more than sanctions and pariah status. Moscow can’t shut up about its nukes and admitted they’ve already programmed western cities as targets (even Trump found that irritating) - when’s the last time anyone else who actually has nukes even pointed one in Russia’s direction let alone programmed Russian cities as the targets LET ALONE trolled Moscow daily with that threat? More projection.
7: Like, a conscience? Freedom from chauvinist retardation? A country where all can have indoor plumbing, flushing toilets and washing machines that aren’t stolen?
8: Incompatible with your bullets 3, 4, and 5.
I agree with you on China but there are other options. Europe, like China, had deals with Russia AND Ukraine. Europe had offered Russia every opportunity to have the same free trade deal as Ukraine was getting. Europe would happily help with the reconstruction. Both Europe and China want a chunk of business in Russia.
Europe and China could go in with a joint pitch on condition that the USA leaves EU NATO.
““Stupid people” want to enrich those threatening to nuke us. “
Russia is not going to nuke us. They want to live. And NO PERSON in Russian government has threatened to nuke us. So, that’s a lie.
““Stupid people” would rather Europeans will buy Russian energy and not American.”
I don’t care where Europe gets its energy. As long as it’s not subsidized by the US taxpayer, or artificial market forces subsidized by the US consumer as a result of embargo. The US will have a market for all the energy it can produce...forever. So we’ll chalk this one up to hyperbolic bullshit.
““Stupid People” do not want NATO allies who strengthening our defense and buy American. “
NATO Allies. What a joke. NATO is now and always has been a parasite on the American people. NATO has NEVER been of any benefit to the US whatsoever. Even in Afghanistan we had to fly them there, supply them and protect their pussy asses when they rarely dared to leave camp.
Yep, nothing but stupid people believe the stupid shit you’re spouting as fact.
Your narrative is a lie and in the age of social media, way too many of us know it.
Your time-line is all screwed up! The West hadn't been providing the Ukrainians with any significant military aid until well AFTER the columns of Russian tanks were speeding towards Kyiv!
Regards,
I really appreciate your taking the time and effort to respond in such a precise, orderly, and factual fashion to the fallacious arguments, factoids, and assorted fantasies proffered here by the pro-Putin crowd!
Some FReepers have sincere misgivings about the united West backing Ukraine against the Russian aggressor, and I can understand and respect their fears of getting involved - though their isolationism ignores the fact that, since WWII, America has, essentially, been the world's policeman - a role that we cannot now frivously shuck off.
(I am also getting pretty sick and tired of the hoary old and ultimately ludicrous "But what if Russia formed a military alliance with and established military bases in Mexico?" red herring. This annoying attempt to establish any sort of moral equivalence between the U.S. and Russia really needs to be put to rest! Can you suggest a concise refutation of that canard?)
But I strongly suspect that a large proportion of the Putin crowd have a hidden agenda and/or are not acting in good faith. Those America-haters probably don't deserve them, and won't really understand them, but at least we other FReepers can profit from your sharp analyses.
Regards,
“If China or Russia had fomented an illegal coup in Mexico, was training Mexican troops there and giving the Mexican military lethal military aid, do you we’d invade? That is what were we doing in Ukraine.”
Let me correct your analogy.
If the Soviet Union had done this after 1986, in response to the USA hosting the Mexican president after blackmailing him into enabling an American takeover that caused the government to collapse and triggered a civil war? Then no.
Because the Cuba Missile Crisis and the near fatal mistakes in 1983 would temper American enthusiasm, and the USSR had far bigger domestic concerns than it had designs on the USA. Also, the USA would consider the possibility that their meddling had already blown up in their face. A stable Mexico would be an obvious prerequisite to any further meddling.
After Chernobyl? There, your bigger concern would be Soviet corruption, stagnation and incompetence triggering a nuclear incident - not stronk.
After 1993? Well, Kennedy and Baker and the pro Putin vatniks would’ve kept reminding us that the USSR was a union that included Russia, not Russia... THAT NO LONGER EXISTED. Russia was not synonymous with the USSR, and getting invites into the European Council, European sports, art and culture. “Wait and see” would’ve been the policy.
So no, only a minority of meatheads in America - the politically illiterate guys who couldn’t let the Cold War go, would be jonesing to invade Mexico to force a regime change.
So actually the only difference between the USA and Russia in your scenario is, which lot are in power. Is it the politically astute, conservative, non interventionist moderate focusing on domestic problems, or is it a bunch of cynical gangsters relying on ultranationalist retards as well as draconian impingement on individual freedom to amplify their message?
In America, the Biden WEF Globohomo club holds the power and has Antifa. Before that, there was Trump who was focusing on getting America OUT of foreign adventures. Before him, Obama and Bush.
In Russia, you have 25 years of the Medvedev - Putin crime syndicate, practically impossible to even criticise let alone challenge, an increasingly shrill totalitarian media, laws that get you arrested for holding up blank placards, and everyone is gung ho for a rebuild of the Russian Empire.
So as long as America turns away from globalisation + Biden / Bush war fevers and intervention fetishes, and is more Trump / Reagan inclined, no it wouldn’t invade Mexico.
If it continues to let globalisation and war fever dominate over domestic problems then yes it might.
Know your Orwell. The animals looked from man to pig and pig to man, and increasingly couldn’t tell the difference.
The pig is Putin. The man is Biden. They are both utter, utter crooks. They are both war fevered. They are both globalists. They are both enemies of individual freedom. They are both kiddy fiddlers.
Putin the pig thinks he’s better than Biden the man he is taking control from. Actually, he’s worse... Because he was the one the animals put their trust in to protect them from the man, and all he did was send them to the glue factory while getting more rich and taking more control.
That certainly makes more sense.
I firmly believe that Russia wouldn’t have gone into Ukraine had Trump prevailed in 2020.
“Like he ended the swamp” and got Mexico to pay for his horder wall and engineered a great infrastructure bill (or was that somebody else?).
Even if everyone is sort of ready to end the war it is not ending in 24 hours.
1) I wonder if trump is aware that most of Ukraine’s current and potential future mineral and petroleum wealth lies in the areas invaded and currently held by Russia. In fact it was Ukraine’s signing oil and gas exploration contracts with 2 US oil companies in 2012 that motivated Putin to grab Crimea (surrounded with petroleum Black Sea potential in 2014. He was protecting his European fuel markets. Looser!
2) Even if Trump refused more warfare money, there is still some in the US pipeline already committed, and a number of countries in Europe would want to continue help to Ukraine.
3) Many steps needed to actually make any cease fire operational. Congress to approve, remember the 60 votes in the Senate needed for some actions. The UN’s reaction to Trumps announcement. The International Court’s action to try Putin for war crimes. Interview and repatriation of Ukrainians, especially children before final settlement. Return of refugees so a true vote on territorial wishes can be arranged.
4) All refugees would not have to be returned. Actually Turkey is planning to have tens of thousands of it’s citizens living and working abroad vote in their upcoming election. But it would take time to find and validate the citizenship of the millions of Ukranians who have left the country, or are internally displaced. Especially as many have had their homes and vital records destroyed by Russia.
So he would be lucky to see any results in 24 weeks, and it could easily take 24 monthsor more.
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