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Analysis and translation of the key sentence regarding natural born citizens written in French in 1758 by Emer de Vattel in his legal treatise on Natural Law.
1 posted on 04/15/2023 5:13:14 PM PDT by CDR Kerchner
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To: CDR Kerchner

Oh crap. Would you just give it up. Or maybe quit being descriptive, and translate the next paragraph, about those other places, like ENGLAND???


2 posted on 04/15/2023 5:17:20 PM PDT by Penelope Dreadful (And there is Pansies, that's for Thoughts. +Sodomy & Abortion are NOT cornerstones of Civilization! )
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To: CDR Kerchner

I get, eat, drink and be merry.


4 posted on 04/15/2023 5:19:47 PM PDT by Fuzz (. )
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To: CDR Kerchner
Still trying to nullify Obama's presidency, I see.

Every man should have his hobbies.

5 posted on 04/15/2023 5:23:28 PM PDT by Drew68 (Ron DeSantis for President 2024. A real conservative.)
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To: CDR Kerchner

Sheridan`s 1791 defines “Natural, ,,,, native, original inhabitant”


6 posted on 04/15/2023 5:58:01 PM PDT by bunkerhill7 (goosedown is up)
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To: CDR Kerchner

That is what it was in the US until it needed to be scrapped for Obama. Now “natural born citizen can include anyone on the planet. He would probably need to visit America a couple of times and exhibit his Marxist bona fides for the benefit of the Deep State to run for election.


7 posted on 04/15/2023 5:58:46 PM PDT by arthurus (covfefe )
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To: CDR Kerchner

Vattel’s book “The Law of Nations” is on my list of important works that needs to be (fully) recorded as an audiobook. Not sure when I’ll get it done though.


8 posted on 04/15/2023 7:34:18 PM PDT by ProgressingAmerica (The historians must be stopped. They're destroying everything.)
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To: CDR Kerchner

Everyone with a half a brain and the willingness to research history knows the gold standard of natural born citizen was conveyed only upon those born in country of citizen parents -- the right of soil and the right of blood. But so many are dimwitted or intentionally obtuse that this is an uphill battle even as we see first-hand the havoc an unqualified candidate in office can wreak. Stiff upper lip and carry on, sir.


9 posted on 04/15/2023 8:04:09 PM PDT by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: CDR Kerchner

If there is another side to this debate, I’d like to hear it. Otherwise, case closed. Obama’s Presidency was illegitimate. Some others who aspire today to become President are not eligible.


16 posted on 04/16/2023 6:09:25 AM PDT by ChessExpert (Required for informed consent: "We have a new, experimental vaccine.")
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To: CDR Kerchner
A good analysis of what should be a simple concept.

Yet I've seen people try to argue that the 'or' in the sentence is used as an either or, indicating two different types of 'natural born' citizens, the first merely being born IN a country while the second was born OF it.

17 posted on 04/16/2023 6:41:59 AM PDT by MamaTexan (I am a person as created by the Law of Nature, not a person as created by the laws of Man.)
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To: CDR Kerchner

Notice no use of “Natural Born Citizen” there...and since “natural” and “Indigene” are both English words, not much reason to translate them at all.


21 posted on 04/16/2023 8:54:21 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (We're a nation of feelings, not thoughts.)
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To: CDR Kerchner

The 1729 French- English dictionary of Abel Boyer has the following examples

Les Naturels Francois - the French Natives;
Les Naturels d’un Pais - the Natives of a country.

That explains the early English translations of Law of Nations to “the natives, or indigene”

https://books.google.com/books?id=nshvfbbVRJwC&q=naturels#v=onepage&q&f=false

The 1797 edition continues to translate Naturels as natives and now translates indigene as natural born citizen. This is incorrect as the French word for citizen appears only once that sentence in the original 1758 French edition. A rather sloppy translation.

A better translation would be ‘the natural born, or natives, are’.

It appears the 1797 edition was likely influenced by the U.S. Constitution then the other way around.


50 posted on 04/17/2023 10:48:03 AM PDT by 4Zoltan
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To: CDR Kerchner
The Preamble to the Constitution says that We the People ordained and established this Constitution to secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.

If the Natural Born Citizen requirement for President was intended to secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity (keep foreign alleigances from taking over), and if the Framers grandfathered themselves as eligible, then it's reasonable to assume that their Posterity was the intended population to become President.

The Posterity of We the People are the citizen children (our Posterity) of citizen parents (We the People).

Therefore, a natural born citizen is a citizen child of citizen parents, as the intended reason stated in the Preamble.

-PJ

51 posted on 04/17/2023 11:08:58 AM PDT by Political Junkie Too ( * LAAP = Left-wing Activist Agitprop Press (formerly known as the MSM))
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To: CDR Kerchner
One cannot find a mumbling word about parents in the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment which controls citizenship for those born in the United States. All this obtuseness cannot make the precedential and controlling U.S. Supreme Court opinion in Won Kim Ark go away.

14A states,

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

As stated in Won Kim Ark,

The fourteenth amendment of the constitution, in the declaration that “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside,” contemplates two sources of citizenship, and two only: birth and naturalization. Citizenship by naturalization can only be acquired by naturalization under the authority and in the forms of law. But citizenship by birth is established by the mere fact of birth under the circumstances defined in the constitution. Every person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizen of the United States, and needs no naturalization.

In Wong Kim Ark the dissenting opinion of Fuller C.J., joined by Harlan J., at 169 U.S. 706, said in reference to the majority opinion of the Court,

The English common-law rule, which it is insisted was in force after the Declaration of Independence, was that “every person born within the dominions of the crown, no matter whether of English or of foreign parents, and, in the latter case, whether the parents were settled or merely temporarily sojourning in the country, was an English subject; save only the children of foreign ambassadors (who were excepted because their fathers carried their own nationality with them), or a child born to a foreigner during the hostile occupation of any part of the territories of England.” Cockb. Nat. 7.

That accurately states the state of English law that was in effect in the colonies when the Declaration of Independence was issued.

https://dlc.library.columbia.edu/jay/ldpd:68356

As John Jay emphasized on 25 July 1787, "Permit me to hint, whether it would not be wise & seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government, and to declare expressly that the Command in chief of the american army shall not be given to, nor devolved on, any but a natural born Citizen." [underscore emphasis by Jay]

Say the term again and again with the emphasis given by John Jay, "natural born citizen. Natural born citizen. Emphasis on born.

It should also be borne in mind that when that emphasis was applied, Jay was speaking about the position of Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, not the office of he President. Combining both functions together had not yet occurred.

In Kerchner et al v. Obama et al, D.N.J. 1:09-CV-00253, the case was dismissed by the District Court and Complainant appealed to the 3rd Circuit court. The 3rd Circuit court affirmed the lower court and in judgment assessed costs against Appellant. The U.S. Supreme court denied cert.

On page 7 of 3rd Circuit precedential opinion, [emphasis added]

Because we have decided that this appeal is frivolous, we will order counsel for Appellants to show cause why just damages and costs should not be imposed.

And, in the Judgment, the Court assessed costs against Appellants.

JUDGMENT

This cause came on to be considered on the record from the United States District Court for the District of New Jersey and was submitted under Third Circuit LAR 34.1(a) on June 29, 2010.

On consideration whereof, it is now hereby ORDERED and ADJUDGED that the judgment of the District Court entered October 21, 2009, be and the same is hereby affirmed. Costs taxed against Appellants. All of the above in accordance with the opinion of this Court.


59 posted on 04/19/2023 7:20:57 PM PDT by woodpusher
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