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To: familyop

I served a year in-country in Vietnam 1967-68, including during Tet, and another 8 months off the coast 1966-67. Yes, the Soviet Union and the PRC were actively supporting North Vietnam including sending weapons, advisers, flying combat aircraft, and manning anti-aircraft batteries.

We paid them back in Afghanistan by supporting the opposition, mostly Afghans and other Islamic volunteers, most notably Osama bin Laden. The blowback was 9/11 and our 20 year involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq. Iran provided weapons and funding to the opposition. I was in Riyadh and Dhahran during Operation Desert Shield/Storm.

In retrospect, I have doubts about the degree to which we were involved in these conflicts. Were the costs in blood and treasure worth it? We now know that our leaders lied to us about many things. The Domino Theory, the justification for Vietnam, turned out to be a crock. Mission creep in Afghanistan was a clear mistake. Is Iraq better off today? Did Jimmy Carter’s human rights policies and his greasing the skids for the removal of the Shah sow the seeds for militant Islamic fundamentalism? We are living with the consequences today.

Given its historical, cultural, and linguistic ties to Ukraine along with a 1,500 mile border, Russia cannot afford to lose in Ukraine. For example, any serious attempt to take Crimea would be viewed as an attack against Russia itself. Escalation, including tactical nuclear weapons is a distinct possibility. We have no treaty obligations to defend Ukraine. We really don’t have the money to arm and rebuild Ukraine. What is the end game? Russia doesn’t have the conventional military forces to invade and occupy Europe, which has a total population and GDP equal to the US. Why are we footing the lion’s share of the costs?

As someone who has put his life and limb on the line a number of times on behalf of this country, it is an insult to question my loyalty. Just because I don’t support our involvement in this proxy war, doesn’t mean I defend Putin’s actions. He is a former KGB thug. My sole interest is what is best for the US.


77 posted on 04/14/2023 8:24:30 PM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar
We really don’t have the money to arm and rebuild Ukraine

Biden in 2022: "It’s going to allow pensions and social support to be paid to the Ukrainian people so they have something — something in their pocket."

Why doesn't Europe pay the Ukraine pensions???

81 posted on 04/14/2023 8:56:20 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Re-imagine the media!)
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To: kabar
"Russia doesn’t have the conventional military forces to invade and occupy Europe, which has a total population and GDP equal to the US."

If Russia took Ukraine, that could change. There are natural resources including much more arable land, people and warmer water ports. The arable land alone, for example, is necessary to feed other nations in Africa and the Middle East. Russians have recently been taught by the government there to hate the Poles more than anyone else.

Look at how little the Germans had between World War 1 and World War 2 and how quickly things got out of hand. Also how quickly the Soviet Union became a threat with nuclear weapons.

"Why are we footing the lion’s share of the costs?"

That's true as compared to Europe. Europe has collectively contributed nearly as much so far but not as much. And not enough. Europe should be contributing more.

As for Afghanistan and Iraq, how much influence would Iran have, if the coalition hadn't intervened. Remember Hussein's attitude towards the U.S. before the first Gulf War, not to mention the invasion and occupation of oil resources in Kuwait.

Nations are starting fights over oil resources, food resources and ocean routes. We knew that was coming. Look at what China has been doing: moving to control ocean routes little by little. We don't need a world in the near future, where our great-grandchildren are truly "going it alone" against nearly the whole planet. NATO and other alliances are necessary.

As for the domino effect, we're seeing it in action right here, and we all know it. Russia's first move is to saturate a target country with propaganda. It's next move is to control the politics of the target nation.

Leftists get us into world wars by cowering and moving like pond water against the threats. Wilson was one notable example. He campaigned on keeping the U.S. out of the War. After attacks against U.S. merchants and efforts to ally with Mexico by promising assistance with invading the U.S., the Wilson Administration was pushed to go back on its promise. Same kind of situation developed in World War 2.

86 posted on 04/14/2023 10:46:22 PM PDT by familyop ("For they that sleep with dogs, shall rise with fleas" (John Webster, "The White Devil" 1612).)
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