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To: ansel12
So you insist on warmongering and building empire.

Just the opposite. I want a negotiated peace settlement and cease fire now. Ultimately, this is how the war will end absent a complete takeover of Ukraine by Russia. We are prolonging this proxy war, which has as its real objectives the removal of Putin, a declared war criminal, and the weakening of the Russian military. Biden and Austin have specifically stated these objectives.

Russia could just go home, but as you demonstrate, you want war.

Russia annexed Crimea in a bloodless takeover in 2014 followed by a plebiscite, which the public voted overwhelmingly to join Russia. Half of the Ukrainian army in Crimea stayed and joined the Russians. The other half went back to Ukraine. The headquarters of the Russian Black Sea Fleet is in Sevastopol, a city within Crimea with special status. On 21 March, 2014 the Republic of Crimea and the federal city of Sevastopol became the 84th and 85th federal subjects of Russia.

Russia considers Crimea as part of Russia. An attack against Crimea is an attack on the Russian homeland. Russia will defend Crimea by any means necessary, including nuclear weapons. Now the four entities within the Donbas have the same status. They are part of Russia. FYI: The separatist movement in the Donbas was spawned in 2014 after the US/NATO engineered coup of the legitimately elected Ukrainian government. The separatists in the Donbas have been fighting the Ukrainian government ever since. The separatists claim that the Ukrainian government killed 13,000 of them before the second Russian invasion.

Bottom line: Russia will not cede the territory it or its surrogates have held since 2014. The best Ukraine can do is a return to the borders prior to the beginning of the war in 2022.

49 posted on 04/04/2023 10:26:54 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar
Russia annexed Crimea in a bloodless takeover in 2014 followed by a plebiscite, which the public voted overwhelmingly to join Russia.

You forgot the part about how the Russian aligned militias forced people to vote for secession. When has an "election" run by Russians been legitimate?

51 posted on 04/04/2023 10:32:49 AM PDT by freeandfreezing
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To: kabar

You will never have clarity if you play that many Orwellian mind games with yourself.


52 posted on 04/04/2023 10:33:50 AM PDT by ansel12 (NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.)
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To: kabar

And when did the Ukrainian city of Zaporizhzhia, a city of 800,000 , vote to be part of Russia? Answer: they never did.

That you can’t even be honest with the basic facts at hand shows how bankrupt your entire position on this matter is. That’s very disappointing. I expect better from FReepers. Perhaps you have some skin this game that clouds your view? Russian wife?


61 posted on 04/04/2023 10:49:17 AM PDT by lodi90
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