Posted on 02/27/2023 11:29:56 AM PST by hardspunned
The war in Ukraine cannot be won “by any reasonable calculation,” which is why a ceasefire is needed as soon as possible, Prime Minister Viktor Orbán stated on public Kossuth Radio on Friday morning.
Viktor Orbán stressed that Russia cannot win the war because the West is mobilizing so much arms, energy, and money behind Ukraine that it is “unlikely by human reckoning” to win an open military conflict against such force. He added that the reverse is also true, and that anyone who thinks Russia, a nuclear power, can be beaten, is wrong.
“NATO, of which Hungary is a member, is a defense alliance, not a war alliance, and there is no clause in its statute that gives the organization the right or obliges member states to take part in military actions aimed at a joint attack on a non-NATO member state.“
(Excerpt) Read more at hungarytoday.hu ...
Orbán is right, yet again.
Which means he’ll be in trouble with the EU and the United States, yet again.
Fortunately for Hungary, Orbán doesn’t care much about that.
Shhh . . .
You're not supposed to say that part. It all started when Hitler, I mean Putin, decided to conquer the world.
Wait, you're not one of those Putin bots, are you?
"Post hoc, ergo propter hoc"-Fallacy!
With a good measure of "Non sequitur" Fallacy thrown in!
Prior to Russia's unprovoked INVASION of a peaceful country (Ukraine), NATO's borders with Russia amounted to a paltry few km in northern Norway and a few km with the Baltic states and Poland! (I'm intentionally ignoring the territorial waters of Alaska.)
NOW, after Russia's rocket-bombing of civilian centers and unilateral annexation of vast swathes of Ukrainian sovereign territory, Finland and Sweden are joining NATO - thus tripling or quadrupling the border NATO shares with Russia. (Nice going BREAKING it, Putin!)
NATO certainly has the right to deploy its tanks wherever it wants on NATO territory - no consultation with Russia is necessary, nor does that automatically give Russia the right to then invade a third party like Ukraine.
Hopelessly confused reasoning on your part, hardspunned!
Regards,
Four points.
1. Putin/Moscow invaded Georgia prior to the 2014 “little green men” invasion of Crimea and eastern Ukraine. Moscow plans to invade part of Moldova have been found and hinge upon taking Odessa, Ukraine. Russia mumbles about taking some of Poland. Ukraine is not Putin’s last domino. This is not about NATO or the US interference since 2014. It is a much bigger aggressive threat by Putin.
2. I was in Eastern Europe last summer. People in Romania, people in Bulgaria, people, in Serbia were all concerned about Russian expansion and invasion of their countries or at least political intimidation into a puppet State status.
3. The Budapest Memorandum, had USA, UK, France guarantee Ukraine sovereignty in exchange for Ukraine giving its nuclear weapons to Russia, which also promised to protect Ukraine from invasion. If the West does not back up that pledge, how can the world hope for any potential nuclear power to not seek to develop nuclear weapons? A pretty significant lesson for world politics if the West ignores the Budapest Memorandum.
3. I agree that the most logical outcome would be a protracted N/S Korea DMZ protracted truce. However, I would like to see the Russian economy crushed, a horrific additional number of body bags filled with Russian soldiers shipped home to wives and families to be buried, so that Russia actively avoids breaking the truce for three or four generations.
Obama and co installed dancing zelensky as a puppet. This is 100% regime change in Russia. The global require Russian natural resources for their agenda.
They are not paying market value and they need slave labor.. as they always do.
Obama stationed US troops provocatively near a Russian base established in the 70s In Syria.
Syria and Ukraine are Russian regime change wars.
Blowing up nordstream was an act of war.
Stop carrying Obamas water.
I’ll just waste enough time on you for one example of the provocative actions NATO was taking BEFORE the invasion AFTER NATO ignored constant Russian warnings that they would attack to counter further unprovoked escalation. Your warmongering heroes in DC ignored all of this. By the way, you fools are ignoring the same guarantees of nuclear retaliation if the unprovoked proxy war on them continues. Where in the NATO Charter is any of this authorized? What treaty obligation requires this of NATO? When did Russia attack the US? When did Russia attack a NATO member. They really figured you out. Switch it from Russia, Russia, Russia to Putin, Putin, Putin and watch you jump through their globalist hoops. Great entertainment!
The details on British reinforcement to NATO ally Estonia came to light after James Heappey, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence, answered a recent answer to a written question:
“As of 23 February 2022, there are 43 Warrior Infantry Fighting Vehicles and 18 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tanks deployed in Estonia.
A further five Warrior Infantry Fighting Vehicles and six Challenger 2 Main Battle Tanks are currently in transit to Estonia, scheduled to arrive on 25 February 2022.”
We sure do live in interesting times
One point, what in hell business is it of my grandchildren who are having upwards of a BILLION DOLLARS A DAY added to their debt? Neither we nor our NATO allies were attacked. If you want to roll out the tired old murderous corrupt world policeman after the catastrophes the last twenty years, why not go back to Afghanistan and Iraq? Or South Sudan or Mali or Uyghur China or 25 other places where the goal isn’t ensuring “well SOB, the prosecutor got fired” shall not perish from the earth? You warmongers really confuse me. Identifying as classic Bushite neocon today or prancing around in your newfound woke globalist stooge identity?
On Item 3, that horse left the barn when the Obama Administration let the Russians take Crimea in 2014. There was no serious US reaction, and the US media did it’s usual poor job of communicating what we had promised the Ukraine to the American Public. Between Libya and the Ukraine, no one will ever give up WMD’s based on American guarantees of safety. Because we didn’t honor our commitment then. I predict that if the actual polling starts to go against the Zelensky government in this country, the Biden admin will drop them like a hot pierogi, And I use pierogi, because Poland relied on western promises and they ended up invaded by the Nazi’s, then surrendered to the USSR. It’s a mess and we are just making the solution more expensive in lives and money every day we don’t get a negotiated settlement started. Zelensky will allow his countrymen to die on the battlefield while he rakes in the cash. We have the example of Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan that show when Hundreds of Billions of US Dollars flow into a war, it lasts until we are tired of paying for it. Sic semper tyrannis
This is an example of Circular Reasoning. You are basically asserting that it was a PROVOKED invasion because NATO did not obey Russian warnings to not PROVOKE it.
Nothing NATO did or failed to do justified Russia invading Ukraine, rocket-bombing its civilian centers, and annexing vast swathes of its sovereign territory.
This would be like the U.S. invading Vietnam because China was shifting tanks towards its border with Vietnam.
Where in the NATO Charter is any of this authorized?
Is any of WHAT authorized?
What treaty obligation requires this of NATO?
Requires WHAT of NATO?
“As of 23 February 2022, there are 43 Warrior Infantry Fighting Vehicles and 18 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tanks deployed in Estonia.
That is an internal matter of NATO. Russia has no business telling us where we can deploy our tanks. That's also a laughably small number of tanks. And it still doesn't give Russia the right to invade Ukraine, which is not answerable for what NATO does in Estonia.
Regards,
The aid given to Ukraine is one of a thousand and one different expenditures undertaken by the U.S. Why single out that one expenditure for criticism.
The military aid currently being rendered to Ukraine is giving the U.S. more bang for the buck vis-à-vis containing the ever-present Russian military threat than anything else since the end of WWII.
Regards,
One of a thousand and one $200 Billion and counting, FAST. NATO is f’n running out of ammunition and our only existential enemy, China hasn’t spent a dime. We have our proxy, which is bleeding the American taxpayer and NATO munitions dry. They have their stand alone, treaty organization killing proxy who the dipshits in DC have forced Russia to supply highly discounted oil and natural resources. Your media masters have you snout down in Russia, Russia, Russia while Xi bides his time. Here’s your hero saving us from Russians.
https://twitter.com/charliekirk11/status/1630305715402469376?s=46&t=I0iF2JoshhYKO4X8c3-new
True. China is watching us expend lots of money and material on a regional war half way around the world. At some point, they will step in to “help” Russia while at the same time make their moves in the Pacific. Biden has set us up for a major failure.
Depends on the definition of "beaten".
NATO tanks rumbling down the streets of Moscow is definitely a stretch.
But the mujahedeen in Afghanistan, with far fewer numbers, far less support than Ukraine has been getting, not to mention what's lined up & lining up, and generally primitive training and tech, ran off Soviet invaders when the USSR was considerably more powerful than Russia is today.
Very little of the war materials the USA is sending to Ukraine would be of import if Xi decides to, say, move on Taiwan. This has been thoroughly hashed out here on FR.
That said, China IS attempting to challenge us with sheer numbers of naval warships.
Since we have so far sent mostly old equipment, already paid for, our bang for the buck is very good indeed, though unfortunate in its need for use.
Actual aid commitments (some of which go out a year or more):
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Winning, according to nearly all the Western decision makers, is regime change in Moscow. Those continued efforts will result in a nuclear exchange before they could succeed in any manner. The Russians are no longer the invader in Ukraine. They retain control over the areas they targeted, Crimea and the 4 areas annexed last fall. The Ukes certainly won’t dislodge them. It will be much too bloody and would require a reinstated US draft for NATO to accomplish it (on the outside chance the NATO attempt didn’t immediately start WWIII).
Yeah: NATO, the GREATEST (defensive) military alliance in the History of Mankind, encompassing a host of First-World countries, many of which - individually - have GDPs dwarfing that of Russia, is being bled dry.
I suppose that now you'll say that Russia is "sitting pretty," and watching with amusement while NATO ordnance is being needlessly destroyed!
Au contraire: RUSSIA is being bled dry - literally. She has lost approx. 180,000 soldiers in a single year. Hundreds of thousands of her best and brightest have fled the country to escape being "gang-pressed" into this war of aggression and conquest which Putin needlessly launched. Russia's economy is faltering due to the sanctions the West has imposed. Her energy revenues have dropped precipitously. Putin is living on borrowed time.
Regards,
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