Posted on 02/07/2023 7:01:29 PM PST by frithguild
“The western territories of Ukraine will be safe if they temporarily come under the protectorate of the Polish state.” Polish Prime Minister Matteusz Morawiecki.
Lol
He’ll never admit it I can promise you that
It’s like the Bandera era and Comanche style war in polish ethnic Ukraine. Simply never happened or doesn’t matter now
Id suggest folks see this film
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt6068960/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
Based on a first hand account by a survivor
It has white on white personal Violence as bad as anything I have seen in the modern era like I said it makes Comanches look like Cub Scouts
Burning children alive hanging and tying pregnant women to stakes and ripping their babies out of them and then impaling the baby in front of the dying mother and other horrific stuff I cannot imagine ….mostly Ukrainians against Polish ethnics but the Polish retaliation was heavy handed as well and to make matters even better it was primarily other than territorial based on Catholic versus orthodox resentments and in the case of orthodox clergy encouraged by them which is just unfathomable to me that a priest would encourage such things against fellow Christians probably as bad as anything in that area since the 30 years war and I’m not sure the 30 years war reach that far though it may have
To have the opinion that Poland does not have designs on the area of Ukraine that is Polish ethnic is wishful thinking in my opinion
The very people who since the fall of the Soviet union and then Maiden who contributed to this problem based in the west will be the very ones who determine how what’s left of Ukraine is governed
I doubt it will be Z and I think these recent purges have something to do with that
We shall see and like I said it does it mean Poland will have to invade in the Ukraine I would imagine the west will want something in place To secure that landmass
Got a link for this? That Putin actually "made this clear"? Lots of propaganda and false claims on both sides. I don't think Morawiecki said what is claimed in this Tweet in the OP. And I've not seen anything Putin has stated that backs up your claim. Lots of hysterical noise made about it -- but nothing from Putin himself. Perhaps I missed it and you can provide the proof.
We can say with certainty that Morawiecki made a series of statements covering a wide range of issues the were close in theme to the quotes on Twitter and Telegram about a Polish protectorate for Ukraine: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/poland-calls-more-western-military-211400963.html https://english.nv.ua/nation/poland-calls-for-more-western-military-aid-to-ukraine-news-50302506.html
I dont know where Morawiecki was when he made the remarks, or if a complete transcript is available.
We also know that the discussion of the establishment of a Polish protectorate by Polish officials has occurred in the very recent past. So it would not be a very big stretch if Morawiecki made protectorate proposals.
The New Voice of Ukraine only pulls quotes from the remarks. I am operating under the assumption that thus publication is an NGO stenographer for the US State Dept./DOD/CIA. So what we really have is an epistemological problem - if the stenographers do not publish it, was it ever said?
Here is the whole Twitter quote:
I don't think Putin would dare to attack a country that is a current NATO member. He is anything but suicidal. The western territories of Ukraine will be safe if they temporarily come under the protectorate of the Polish state,
My search results on any key words in this statement are Jankey - we all know that techs manipulate search queries. My results feel like that is what is happening.
Look, I get Ocams Razor argument here - that the statement cannot be found probably means that it didn't happen. But I'm not buying it.
The Morawiecki protectorate discussion is an anathema to Germany and France. It can be a wedge issue that cleaves NATO unity. Additionally, the American news consumer has not been prepared to digest that escalatory notions like this exist - it may reawaken an American isolationist / anti-war sentiment. So there is ample reason to spike this story.
I could be wrong. I am antiwar to my libertarian core.
“We can say with certainty that Morawiecki made a series of statements covering a wide range of issues the were close in theme to the quotes on Twitter and Telegram about a Polish protectorate for Ukraine: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/poland-calls-more-western-military-211400963.html https://english.nv.ua/nation/poland-calls-for-more-western-military-aid-to-ukraine-news-50302506.html“
Fascinating. So actually which part of text in the links you provided back it up ?
“We also know that the discussion of the establishment of a Polish protectorate by Polish officials has occurred in the very recent past.”
Who’s we ?
Poland is not going to do that. Only Russia wishes to grab territory from its neighbours
So Poland's going to give back East Prussia, and Pomerania, and a chunk of Saxony since they don't believe in grabbing territory from their neighbors?
Poland had absolutely no say in her post WWII borders, those were decided on by the Allies, including Stalin.
See post 33: https://www.sb.by/en/poland-wants-to-establish-protectorate-over-ukraine-expert-says.html
If you say "Who’s we ?" it apparently is the people who have read what has been posted in this thread and not you.
As far as text in the links that are "close in theme to the quotes on Twitter and Telegram about a Polish protectorate," I would say all of the text in the links. I am sorry but I cannot read them for you. If you disagree that the Morawiecki are not close in theme to the Polis protectorate text attributed to him, then we can disagree.
Clearly not a western source, and obviously Russian with machine translation, but it contains the entire Twitter quote:
Quote: “I don’t think Putin would dare to attack a country that is an active member of NATO. He is anything but suicidal. The western territories of Ukraine will be safe if they temporarily come under the protectorate of the Polish state”, – Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said the other day.
So again - the epistemological question - if a western news outlet does not report a statement does it exist? And if it exists, why was it spiked?
There's simply nothing even close to that in the links you posted in #103.
“See post 33: https://www.sb.by/en/poland-wants-to-establish-protectorate-over-ukraine-expert-says.html
If you say “Who's we ?” it apparently is the people who have read what has been posted in this thread and not you.”
Post 33 is just a comment of some “expert” for the Belarus stalinistic regime controlled media. One rus nazi psycho pig quoting opinion of another rus nazi psycho pig proves nothing. No matter how many more times you will insert “Polish protectorate” here, this is just a clown thread based on a worthless rus kacap pig Twitter account.
You are basically spamming here the rus nazi garbage all over the place. Go get a job.
We also know that the discussion of the establishment of a Polish protectorate by Polish officials has occurred in the very recent past.
We know this how? From some guy on Twitter?
If it is such a wedge issue, and would split NATO, etc. -- and it certainly would not go down well with Germany and other European countries, I agree -- then why haven't the Russians been publicizing it? It would certainly be in their interest to do so. Why can't I find it in the Russian media? Not that finding it in the Russian media would necessarily mean he really did say it. But their not running with this is telling.
Again, I don't doubt that all sorts of ideas have been discussed, even wild ones, about how to respond to various possible scenarios in Ukraine. This idea of a temporary protectorate may well have been floated by someone at some time, but there is no proof that Morawiecki said any such thing publicly, or that anyone in a position of power is seriously considering it. If he had said it publicly at the conference in Warsaw on Monday, wouldn't at least the Russians have reported it, if not the Germans or Poles or Ukrainians?
Morawiecki did say some pretty out-there stuff on Monday. And he's been quite cocky toward the Germans lately. Right now Poland is a special NATO pet of ours. Morawiecki is perhaps letting that go to his head.
It's like the US is a mother who plays her kids off against each other by playing favorites with them. Right now, Poland is the golden child and getting his own back against the bigger stronger Germany who whipped up on him many years ago and now bosses him around. But for now Poland is Mom's fave so long as he's useful in ways she wants. So he's making the most of it while it lasts. Germany is the big bossy brother of the EU and carries a big wallet, but Mom has her ways via NATO, with her big purse and big stick ... See? And some of this may be political posturing for the next election, not sure about that, not being that up on Polish politics.
Whatever, Mom would not like him shooting his mouth off about a Polish protectorate in Western Ukraine. Not at all. So it stands to reason he simply wouldn't do that. Mom loves all the other stuff he said on Monday, of course. Good boy.
I don't like wars, either. The ones cheerleading this one on have likely never been anywhere near a real war and seen how utterly horrific wars are. Sometimes I wish photos included smell, so all the war enthusiasts who delight in posting war porn photos would have to smell war. It smells really, really awful, like nothing else.
As far as recent statements from other sources regarding protectorate see post 33:
https://www.sb.by/en/poland-wants-to-establish-protectorate-over-ukraine-expert-says.html
Got it, thanks.
Actually this story was even posted on yahoo news yesterday. I couldn’t find it today doing a quick search, don’t know if they pulled it, but it did appear in a few msm outlets so the story is likely true.
Okay, this merely the opinion of a Belarusian political commentator. Look at all the stuff our commentators say on MSNBC, various radio shows, etc. He does not even claim any Polish official has said this. He’s just mouthing off, stirring the pot.
As pro-Russian, he says stuff like this the same way some lib commentator on some lib show spouts pro-lib anti-conservative opinions, like white Republicans want to do away with black people or Trump supporters are against “democracy”. Doesn’t make it real or true.
You are right. I stand corrected.
Okay, this appears to be his whole speech (?) at the Warsaw conference. I can make out some of it, but don’t speak Polish. Never studied it or tried to learn it. So I have no idea what all he said. It’s available on the Polish government website, so one would think if he actually said that about a protectorate, the Russians would be trumpeting it far and wide. They certainly have access it it. They got the interwebs, too.
Maybe dfwgator and/or Cronos can check it out. As I understand it, they do speak Polish.
’ if a western news outlet does not report a statement does it exist?’
Ha ha. Yes.
I’m surprised the subject of reversing Stalin’s seizure of the Eastern 1/3 of Poland has not come up yet.
And, as I said already, will Scholz pick up the phone if they tell him it’s Putin calling about Königsberg?
I’m not picking on you at all, just interested in the truth, something hard to come by in war. I get the impression you care about the truth, too, and I highly respect you for it.
There is so much propaganda, so many false claims. And so many spouting opinions they present as fact, like the Belarusian guy. We have our own doing the same. I suspect the claim made about Putin expecting to bully Poland when he’s done with Ukraine originated in some opinion spouted by someone or other on “our” side. Which is why I asked for proof:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4129374/posts?page=102#102
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