Posted on 12/06/2022 4:38:39 AM PST by Lazamataz
Fraud does exist, obviously. And fraud has been argued, in court, and elections have been overturned, or re-done. However, for an election to be overturned, or redone, fraud must be argued, and won, in court.
And most people don't know, but Trump has never argued in any court that fraud took place. Look it up, not once, ever. To legally argue fraud, you must wait until the election is over, indicating you lost, so that you can have the proper standing to argue the election RESULT was fraudulent. That is why Kari Lake has been waiting to file her cause in Arizona accusing that fraud took place, because she has accepted the legal advice that a fraud charge can only be made after the initial result has been completely certified and officially announced. Meanwhile, all of Trump's actual cases were just trying to get ballots thrown out, such as all mail in ballots in certain states.
Trump and his legal team knew this, which is why he never filed any actual accusations of fraud. Instead, he decided to wage a PR war, instead of a legal challenge on January 6, that he is still waging. PR wars affect PR, both positively, and negatively. They do not result in fraud charges being heard and decided in a court of law. And without a case ever being made in court that fraud did exist, no election will ever be legally reversed, or re-done. He's completely trying to put the legal cart before the horse, in a PR campaign. Which is mainly why no lawyers want to go near him.
It’s not as if the Left isn’t whittling down the Constitution on a daily basis. Pure and simple “death by a thousand cuts”.
Correct. “You come at the king, you best not miss.”
Every sane person knows a few wannabe minutemen don’t stand a snowball’s chance.
Excellent analysis but I don’t understand how you end up a “fence” sitter. Trump is going to destroy our enemies with that “scorched earth approach” you mentioned and easily coast into the Presidency. Nothing is going to stop him and many weak freepers are going to fold.
They all including the case cited, all are contracts.
Thank you! I've really worked hard at that for a long time, so it's nice to see I've actually accomplished something as I get older. I really appreciate it!
However....
FRAUD VITIATES EVERYTHING” — United States Supreme Court (Ruling rendered in the 1878 case: United States versus Throckmorton)
When the Supreme Court (that is who you were citing, right?) makes a determination that fraud sufficient to overturn the election actually occurred, then that precedent might actually apply. And it wouldn't be Trump himself pronouncing that the election is invalid, it would be the duly constituted, constitutionally empowered Supreme Court of the United States.
But Trump doesn't have that Supreme Court decision on his side, does he? And there is absolutely nothing in that decision giving an individual's personal determination that fraud existed any legal effect at all.
Which means, once again, that we're talking about Trump advocating something absolutely outside the Constitution. He hasn't even filed anything with the Supreme Court (or any other court) even asking them to make that determination since this story broke.
More importantly, is that it proves election interference employing fraud occurred. It would be hard for the Supreme Court to ignore the case.
Check
I agree Trump was trying to up rile folks — on both sides. He was probably jealous of Musk and Kanye for stealing all the attention and trying to get the spotlight back on himself. Stupidly, I think. The Kanye thing was fading away and Musk’s Twitter revelations were a great gift to Trump.
But wanting “to see how many of his supporters would be willing to start a revolution over the 2020 election” and “willing to make the ultimate sacrifice”? I’m not ready to go there. Perhaps you are right, and he’s gone bonkers and looking at political Samsonic suicide* “in a fatalistic rallying cry” — but I can’t quite believe that. Not yet.
If some deranged fool goes out and shoots some place up because of this, the Dems will have a field day: “See, didn’t we warn you? MAGAnuts are violent fascists bent on insurrection, a danger to democracy?!?!” — and claim Biden’s creepy red-lit Nuremberg speech was “prophetic”. Trump will be accused of “incitement to violence” just as he was falsely accused of it over Jan6. Only this time, it would be far, far tougher to defend him.
Let us pray hard no such thing comes to pass.
*Of course, in the strict sense, Samsonic suicide means destroying one’s enemies along with one’s self. In the scenario you posed, Trump would severely damage his MAGA movement along with himself.
Wrong. Just wrong. Ask any Constitutional lawyer. Or any lawyer specializing in contract law, for that matter.
Thank you. I've been an admirer of Trump for many decades, going all the way back to when I made a special trip to see his new Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City when it opened, which was the biggest casino in the world at the time. It was truly amazing. Whenever Trump would appear on TV throughout the years, my wife would always try to get my attention and say "Hey! Your guy in on TV!" She knew who Trump was obviously, but calling him "my guy" was just her way of acknowledging my affection.
So I have been following this man carefully for decades, and think I have a deep understanding of the situation. But my love is not unconditional. My love for my country is more, and Trump is unfortunately putting that to the test.
I don’t understand how you end up a “fence” sitter.
There are several reasons, but mainly it boils down to 2 issues, which are my most important issues. First, election security, and with regard to that, I don't think Trump has properly pursued the restoration of election security, even though he fundraised significantly after the 2020 election on that promise. He never filed one suit alleging fraud, and instead has been on this PR campaign full of accusations but short on itemized, specific proof of fraud. He's left that up to others, like Mike Lindell or Dinesh D'Souza, but nothing of merit has ever been organized. So instead of fighting against fraud back in 2021, which was the proper time, he literally took the year off.
Then when he returned to the scene, roughly in early 2022, he immediately shot himself in the foot on the vaccine issue, which combined with the origin of COVID is my second biggest issue. I'll spare going into detail there, but suffice to say his continual support of warp speed and the vaccines is a major problem for me.
Now, when he's flirting with the idea of revolution, even though he never even has legally filed a case alleging fraud, is just asking too much. Even from an old friend.
Trump should be filing a case then, within the laws of the Constitution, rather than suggesting the Constitution is already obsolete, no matter which way you interpret his latest remarks.
What "election" are you talking about? First: There is only one election in the Constitution, and there's no evidence of fraud in it. At all.
Second: If you mean the popularity contest held on November 3, 2020, a) That is not mentioned in or required by the Constitution, and b) There wasn't one "election", but 51, the purpose of which was to fulfill the obligation of 50 different State Legislatures, and Congress after 1960, to appoint the Electors who would conduct the Presidential election on December 14.
Those Electors were in fact appointed, not a single one was challenged by a State Legislature, and 306 of them voted for, and elected, Joe Biden.
I really can't find a Federal Constitutional issue here.
If “election fraud” by reason of media bias or withholding of information was deemed a valid reason for overturning an election, we’d be in real banana republic territory. Can you imagine? Think about it.
Sorry,once the Electors cast their votes and the votes were counted and recorded, it was too late for court cases. Done, sealed. The time for court cases was between the close of polls and the count of Electoral votes on Jan 6th. It’s possible that the Jan 6th vote count might have been postponed pending a court decision on election fraud, but no such court case was pending and it did not happen.
There’s no excuse for Trump’s ham fisted word salad that arguably defends revolution over his 2020 loss. Fine people are spinning what he said in a favorable light by twisting themselves into pretzels. This is an another unnecessary self immolation that damages Trump with the electorate including many supports here on FR.
He is lost and obsessed with 2020 but he pursued administrative remedies rather than solid legal challenges. He pled his case to the secretary of state in Georgia. He pled his case to his VP who had a ceremonial role. Yes there was manipulation of covid to play with the rules governing elections, yes there was some fraud but ultimately he is responsible for his loss.
Can’t say his 2020 loss of Georgia was about covid when the Republican governor managing the state covid response won re-election easily. He didn’t only lose Georgia for the White House but two senate seats as well.
Trump should have shaken off 2020 and focused on a positive agenda that included election reform. Instead he’s painted himself as a cry baby. It’s a shame because we could use Trump in the White House again. But not like this.
He won’t win in 2024 because he’s not done or doing what he needed to do after 2020. The midterm results show in competitive races, association with Trump turned off even Republican voters in enough numbers to cause some painful losses in major races.
I still believe the agenda is bigger than any candidate. No idea who will emerge for Republicans next year but I am not into coronations whether it’s Trump, DeSantis or other names that have been put forward.
Oh, you don't give yourself enough credit, you have perfected it to great heights.
Twitter's document dump proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that fraudulent statements were made by 50 intelligence officers who claimed it was Russian disinformation, and then echoed throughout the media echo chamber, without a shred of evidence, is indisputable proof that fraud was indeed employed in the 2020 election.
Sure the Supreme Court can ignore it, along with the fact that government agencies crossed the line by engaging in the interference conspiracy, which is not only a breach of law, but is also a violation of the oath administered that they swear to protect the Constitution.
Furthermore, they have actively engaged in denying citizens, before, during, and after the conclusion of the election to deny yet another right of the citizens of this nation, by abrogating our first amendment right of freedom of speech, especially political speech.
It's our responsibility to make sure that they do not, and we do that by making our voices heard that we will not tolerate that our highest court of the land ignoring this blatant theft and interference of our sacred elections.
If we don't, and we remain silent, then we don't deserve the freedom our founders created for us and enshrined in a document known as the U.S. Constitution.
There is no standing for a court case now. The Supremes would just laugh. See:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4114238/posts?page=113#113
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4114238/posts?page=114#114
As Jim Noble said, “There is only one election in the Constitution.” And that election involved the Electors and only the Electors.
I was one of many who asked their representatives to look at allegations because I wanted confidence in the winning candidates. I also supported Cruz and others objecting to certification on the sixth for the House to examine allegations. But where was the Trump legal cases, the hard evidence examined in court?
The Kraken was a minnow in cosplay.
Once the results of the electoral college votes were accepted by the House, it was OVER. DONE. The riot at the Capitol was minor, was in no way an insurrection, and not something I blame Trump for. Peacefully protesting is bedrock to our nation.
Trump was outsmarted by Pelosi and others, traps were set and he found ways to trigger them all. He took Joe’s bait during the first debate (hurting him in Georgia maybe elsewhere) and made strategic errors in his campaign. More than most modern presidents he deserved a second term on his results. He said a couple things during covid (never sit down with a watergate reporter writing a book) but not often and no one can look at the response and say he botched it.
He followed Fauci’s advice and the supposed fascist dictator resisted power grab and let the states manage the crisis. As he should’ve.
At this point I am not sure why we continue to talk about Trump. He’s tarnished his record as POTUS and undermined the movement and America First agenda which, if you hadn’t noticed Joe has tried to co-opt in some small ways.
We need to move on since Trump can’t and continues to live in the past. He hasn’t learned anything. It’s sad. We need a bold, smart fighter and we need the America First agenda. We don’t need the histrionics.
Mr. Mataz,
Trump needs to have someone read his posts before hitting the send button.
Style over substance. Ra ra GOPers ra ra!!!
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