Posted on 11/12/2022 9:54:54 AM PST by RandFan
Look at how virtuous you are................ with other peoples money.
I was calling for peacekeepers as I outlined on this thread before Feb 24, 2022. I very much oppose violence of any kind. I would like to see all countries be genuinely free Republics.
Now you seem to be trying to justify all the mass murder taking place by Russia’s forces on Ukraine soil. That’s disgusting. I expect you to clarify that unambiguously. And as long as you make excuses for these mass murders then I will ignore you here.
Yep
You are preaching to the choir, but I don’t fault you one bit for that. I departed the Ukraine threads long ago because they are stupid and useless, with ignorant idiots slinging insults back and forth like British “football hooligans” with no more idea than a cat of what they are going on about. They are a waste of time. Those of us who actually know a thing or two about Ukraine and Russia and our current ghastly FP team discuss in private — or occasionally on a neglected saner thread.
There was a solution even after Vickie’s armed putsch of 2014. It was called Minsk II. I posted on this more reasonable thread a while back starting here:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4095178/posts?page=12#12
More here:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/4077954/posts?page=32#32
I’ve made other posts, too, some time back, but it would be trouble to find them now, although here are a few:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/4065611/posts?page=75#75
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4042065/posts?page=14#14
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4087625/posts?page=4#4
On our side (and I mean strictly from the point of view of Vickie and Jake & Co., not the belligerent actually shooting and dying) this war has nothing to do with security concerns between Russia and Ukraine, nor Ukrainian sovereignty or democracy or any of the stuff that gets talked about openly. It’s about a lot of other things. Same as in former Yugoslavia, it’s about keeping NATO relevant and showing the Euros we call all the shots, yes, including in Europe*. It’s about breaking up Russia (into digestible bits for the EU? Not sure about that one, but was a goal of Germany’s and ours in former Y — but we’d like to see it broken up, regardless — and yes, I know China would be the main beneficiary if this should come to pass). It’s about regime change in Russia (eye roll — be careful what you wish for, neocons!). I’ve maintained from the beginning that no matter who ends up “winning”, the real winner will be China. Sorry to repeat myself, but:
“The mantis stalks the cicada, unaware of the oriole behind”
(figurative meaning: “to pursue a narrow gain while neglecting a greater danger”)
Then says “The bigger question that the United States is unwilling to face is, who is the mantis and who is the cicada?” China is obviously the oriole. So are we the cicada or the mantis? And which is Russia? Does it matter?
Have a look at a mantis attempting to capture a cicada:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V3A7tqJoVGs
As you can see, both are large insects. The mantis is strong, and intelligent for an insect, with amazing reach, but the huge, noisy, primitive cicada is also very strong, well-armored and has an enormous wingspan. Both are likely to be damaged or weakened in such a fight. Meanwhile, the oriole stalks from behind. (Of course I think we’re the mantis, Russia the cicada.)
Link to essay by Chen Feng (you’ll have to run it through Google translate). Long, but well worth the read — and keep in mind it was written back in March):
https://m.guancha.cn/ChenFeng3/2022_03_02_628308
Even though written at the very beginning of the conflict, he got so much right. Interesting to see his take on it.
Yes, whoever “wins” this war in Ukraine, China is the real winner. I’ve been saying that since the beginning.
Link to whole post:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4083391/posts?page=41#41
*Explanation here:
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4077554/posts?page=21#21
****
Finally, I do have a conscience. I care very much that people are dying and suffering and a country is being destroyed. Same as I cared in former Yugoslavia, and when we turned Libya into a failed state sprouting slave markets (easily foreseen, but we cared not).
Yes, more and more hate for generations to come. I knew this war would be hideous. Brother-against-brother civil wars in blood-and-soil countries are the most brutal and vicious of all. There are a number of parallels with former Yugoslavia,
but I won’t go on about that. And yes, it’s not technically a civil war, but that’s its true character, same as former Y.
We have zero interest in peace. Had we wanted peace, there would have been no war. We would have leaned on Ukraine to implement Minsk rather than the opposite. Had we not meddled back in 2014, there would have been no need for Minsk. And had we taken the approach to Russia (and China) *I* think we should have back in the 1990s (which pretty much aligns with George Keenan’s) there would be no Putin. But, for better or worse, I am not in charge of our foreign policy. I can only watch helplessly and pray — and bug my congresscritters.
That Musk proposal wasn’t the best; it was beyond retarded.
First of all, we know that Russia claims over 90% - of half a million people balloted - in Zaporizhzhia Oblast voted for annexation. However we also know 710,000 out of the 1.9 million (in January) population of the Oblast live in the capitol city which wasn’t polled at all, and we also know that over 150,000 still live in other places under Ukraine’s control and weren’t invited to vote either. By the time you consider the IDPs and refugees who also didn’t get a vote, the half a million doesn’t even account for 30% of the eligible population of Zaporizhzhia Oblast - and, those who did vote may have done so under duress (we’ve all seen footage of people being coerced into voting by door-to-door officials with armed guards, and having to hand the paper over).
That’s the very definition of a rigged referendum - having your vote collected at gunpoint and not even having the ability to see that vote properly added to the ballot box.
Secondly, the DPR is arguably the only regime that has any legitimacy by virtue of being in existence for eight years HOWEVER even that is illegitimate. It was set up when no more than 2,000 pro-Russian paramilitaries stormed the Regional State Administration building. Those people demanded a referendum, but the official administration and Kyiv both refused, so they held a closed vote involving only themselves, inside the RSA building, to create the Donetsk People’s Republic.
The Pushilin regime created by that publicity stunt has not once been ratified by the citizenry in any shape or form, in any regional vote or election, in all the eight years it’s existed. It also reinstated the death penalty - which is against both the Ukrainian and the Russian constitutions - without any debate.
Thirdly - A referendum called for by any self-declared paramilitary group masquerading as a government, which wields power without any democratic legitimacy of any form, is never going to be accepted as binding by the country it’s held in, unless the country is totalitarian. So, these referenda will never be treated as legitimate by any more than a handful of basket cases in the international community. The Kremlin can say whatever it likes - its scribbles into its constitution declaring the four oblasts part of Russia might as well be done by four year olds with crayons; they have no legal standing and are nothing more than kabuki theater for Russian fascist consumption.
Finally, Ukraine going neutral is a recipe for enabling a future invasion by Russia but with Ukraine’s hands tied so it cannot defend itself. Hence Ukraine’s demand that Russia ain’t gonna get that without Russia and others giving Ukraine concrete, immutable security guarantees. Given that it ALREADY had assurances even stronger than that - the Budapest Memorandum effectively required all signatories to agree never to invade Ukraine AND TO ASSIST UKRAINE IF IT GOT INVADED - and Russia was the primary beneficiary of that agreement, and Russia was the state that broke that agreement, Russia has itself set the precedent that no amount of wooly assurances will ever be worth the paper it’s written on.
Interestingly, on FR today there’s been some discussion about the American Constitution and secession; the opinion (correctly) is that a federal state can’t unilaterally exit the federal union (and certainly cannot keep federal land and other assets as a consequence).
I’d be interested to know if that opinion is based only on the American situation, or if it’s a point of principle.
If it’s a point of principle, then one can argue that the strongest mandate for de-legitimizing the independence/annexation referendums comes directly from the American founding fathers in relation to the compact that makes them part of the union in the first place.
If it’s specific to the American union of federal states, then it’s even more difficult for a component of a unitary nation state like Ukraine or the United Kingdom to arbitrarily vote itself independent. If even a state that’s inside a federal union by choice cannot leave it that easily, how can an oblast inside a unitary nation state do it?
An oblast cannot unilaterally vote itself out of Ukraine any more than the county of Cornwall can unilaterally quit being part of England and declare itself an independent country. DEVOLUTION is possible - in the UK, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own rules and administrations, just like Crimea had under the Ukrainian constitution - but devolution has to be achieved through consent at the unitary state level as well as in the component region.
It’s not just the Ukrainians who won’t go for Musk’s proposal. The US doesn’t want it, and we call the shots. And we don’t want it for a lot more reasons than the money laundering thing.
Peace plans are lovely and sweet, but until the US decides it’s time for peace, there will be none. Vickie & pals haven’t achieved their ridiculous goals yet. Until they do, or someone sane is elected president, it ain’t gonna happen.
Me, I’d love to see Music’s proposal taken up and implemented. But I’m just li’l old me. See my post #24, above.
Don’t I remember you from the old Balkans threads here on FR, or do I have you confused with another Rhino? If I’m right, it’s a pleasure to “see” you again. If wrong and confused, my apologies.
WTF is going on? Zalensky looking for advice on how to start an endless war?
I have not heard anyone suggest none of our tax dollars be used to pay Ukraine’s sovereign debt. The debt holders such as hedge funds should suspend or even forgive Ukraines debt during their time of need.
Change my mind.
GWB has no gravitas to lend. He is a total zero. His time is up.
Apparently
The government that made that agreement ended with a violent US sponsored coup in 2014.
The French government that sold us the Louisiana Purchase has been out of power longer than that, and yet we still hold the land. International agreements aren't tied to individual leaders or governments.
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