Posted on 10/18/2022 7:55:53 AM PDT by SoConPubbie
This is sophisticated gaslighting. The intent is to always put the burden on Ukraine. How about instead Russians leave occupied Ukraine and go home? No more war and they can negotiate from Moscow until the cows come home.
Interestingly, the “it’s Ukraine’s fault” and “we need peace” crowd never suggest that Russia just stop its wanton mass murder and genocide and leave. Obviously they don’t really want peace and are happy to see Ukraine turned into parking lot.
Do you really trust the cookie pushers from Foggy Bottom to do anything useful?
The only way to deal with people like Putin is a fist to the nose. Such treatment to be repeated as necessary.
Actually, Ukraine passed two laws granting autonomy to the Donbas region. It was the Russian sponsored militias that balked at the deal because Ukraine wanted to hold the referenda under government control rather than that of the militias. More importantly, there would never had been a need for the Minsk Agreement if Russia hand not clandestinely invaded in 2014. But keep repeating the Russian propaganda if you want.
All of that happened, of course, after Russia broke all international law and laws of war by removing national insignia from its military soldiers before invading Ukraine. Russia lied then about Ukraine and they lie now. Putin is a lying Bolshevik and he words are worthless.
...“The war might have been prevented – probably would have been prevented – if Ukraine had been willing to abide by the Minsk agreement, recognize the Donbas as an autonomous entity within Ukraine, avoid NATO military advisors, and pledge not to enter NATO,” ...
I believe this is true. Looking back at all that preceded the invasion - the conferences between the parties over several years, and more - clearly Russia was willing to protect its borders from an encroaching NATO utilizing the provisions of the Minsk Agreement. Ukraine was steadfast against it. And the Dombass territory has been in constant turmoil since 2014 with daily battles and casualties between the Ukrainian troops and the local militias supported by Russia.
So if only Ukraine had done everything Moscow demanded, all would have been well! The Czechs tried that with Germany, same results.
Did this former ambassador wave around a piece of paper with his insights fluttering in the breeze?
Trejo is just another idiot internet @hole given how he ends the article.
It would be good if people could be adult about all this, but that's a lost cause.
Your father?
What’s to stop Russia from just invading again with no insignia after a peace deal? Nothing. Putin breaks all the rules here and Russia must be defeated. There is no other option.
In other words the Russian demand was that Ukraine keep itself defenseless against Russia. That makes Ukraine effectively a protectorate and puppet of Russia. Which is pretty much what Putin was trying to arrange under Yanukovych. No EU, much less NATO.
Thats why all of Eastern Europe demanded entry into NATO. With this monster of a neighbor....
Nobody in his right mind trusts the Russians.
Matlock is quite wrong.
Russia is what it is. It could never have been brought into a security arrangement, because of its fundamental nature. And its neighbors would never have trusted it, and rightly so.
Did Moscow put in a puppet to oppose and illegally block the will of the parliament (re joining the EU, not NATO) in Ukraine? Yes.
Did Moscow create a subversive revolt in Ukraine? Yes
Did Moscow invade Ukraine with both covert and overt forces? Yes.
And so on. Russia is a monstrous entity, easily turned to the will of an autocrat, and easily driven to crush all who oppose it.
If you have not noticed, there have been two free elections since 2014 and the present government was elected by the people of Ukraine. It is also very funny for someone supporting Putin to suddenly care about democracy.
“And just like that a thought-provoking article turns into trash.”
That’s all the pro-Russia posters have. They can’t ague logically and convincingly, so their default is childish name-calling and immature innuendoes.
If you like him then he must be compromised.
Putin did not abide by the Minsk agreement so Ukraine was supposed to unilaterally abide by it?
Matlock never read Putins many speeches over many years claiming all Ukraine was part of Russia.
All Matlock is doing is repeating Putin’s excuses.
It’s also interesting that the pro-Russia crowd always ignore the fact that Russia encouraged, sponsored, and armed the separatist movement in eastern Ukraine, including introducing Russian troops into the fray. And Russia also illegally occupied and annexed Ukraine in 2014. All this BEFORE the Minsk Agreements. It was akin to someone breaking into your house, raping your daughter, and then saying, “Suck it up, buttercup. We can talk now; but on MY terms.”
The Minsk Agreements were flawed and unworkable from the get-go, that’s why they were constantly being tweaked, including the Steinmeier proposal which tried to salvage them; but, they remained unworkable.
The pro-Russia posters also conveniently ignore the Budapest Memorandum, which Russia signed, guaranteeing Ukrainian security. Russia reneged on that eight years ago.
Fine but that doesn’t change the sentiment of the former ambassador
Nor the fact that 90% of western media which is nearly all of what anyone sees unless they dig like I do is pure generated propaganda at worst and embellished at best
I always ask why now believe the media after all 99% of posters here have never trusted media
Yet from them since 2014 on Ukraine some freepers believe every word
It’s like my wife in an argument
When escape routes and deflection are all used up
She just stares at me and clams up
Are you staring at me?
I’m just fooling with you
It is a legit question
Why believe the media who are lockstep on Ukraine via propaganda in my view and omission?
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