Posted on 07/31/2022 6:43:07 PM PDT by McGruff
NATO said in a statement Sunday that tensions are on the rise in the northern municipalities of Kosovo and that Kosovo Force Pristina (KFOR) was monitoring the situation closely.
Tensions are again on the rise amid a new government regulation that will compel people entering Kosovo with Serbian IDs to replace them with a temporary document during their stay there.
On Sunday, ethnic Serbs in northern Kosovo — a partially recognized state bordered by Serbia in the Balkans — blocked two key border crossings with Serbia to protest the new rule.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
When I saw the 1st news on Serbia this a.m., I thought “NATO has opened a 2nd front.”
“Then you probably should be silent on Donbas and Crimea, don’t you?”
Why? You are comparing apples to oranges. Did Albania occupy and annex Kosovo? No. Did Montenegro? No. Did ANYONE? No. So, your Crimea comparison fails at the outset.
Donbas declared independence and ushered in a civil war.
That is between Ukraine and Donbas.
Just as Kosovo’s declaration of independence from Serbia is between Serbia and Kosovo (though Serbia appears to have accepted it as a fait accompli, at least for the time being).
You are focusing on unimportant details. If the territory can be independent it can decide to he a part of something else as well. Kosovo is between the US and Serbia. The US occupied it, see Camp Bondsteel.
“You are focusing on unimportant details.”
No; I’m focusing on facts and reality.
“Kosovo is between the US and Serbia. The US occupied it, see Camp Bondsteel.”
Bondsteel is NATO (KFOR). Its main command is the US Army. But it has had and still has troops from several different NATO countries.
Kosovo declared independence from Serbia back in 2008. Serbia does not recognize Kosovo’s independence (though it has not made a big issue of it lately, at least until now). Russia does not recognize Kosovo’s independence, either (but then neither do NATO countries Spain and Greece). The Balkans have always been a clusterf@#k. It’s a miracle Tito was able to keep some semblance of order as long as he did.
It took nine years of ethnic cleansing to make conditions for ‘independence’. If it wasn’t on news it doesn’t mean it wasn’t an issue.
If you don’t like ‘occupied by the US’ let’s call it occupied by NATO (to leave no doubts that it is a defensive alliance and not a threat to anyone, LOL).
The US IS NATO, always has been, always will be.
The only reason NATO is there is to keep Serbia from attacking Kosovo.
Now tell me how dismembering Serbia contributes to the American interest.
But aren’t you making make for the Russian troops in Ukraine through the same argument?
It doesn’t.
The Chinese called it “weasel diplomacy”, I’d say to poke every eye in the world.
“But aren’t you making make for the Russian troops in Ukraine through the same argument?”
Not at all.
Kosovo is recognized as an independent state by several international organizations (with a handful of countries not recognizing its independence). Almost no one recognizes the areas of Ukraine occupied by Russian troops as independent states.
Here is a list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membership_of_Kosovo_in_international_organizations
Sorry, pal, your argument is a bull crap.
There is a tendency to appeal to public opinion on issues wuere it leans nothing.
Like forty experts agree that 2+2=5. Who cares what they think if the opposite is true? If the public decides that you are a camel would you eat bush and grow a hump?
Apart from ‘recognition’, what makes Kosovo special?
There is a right of people to self-determination in the UN charter indeed. It took nine years of killing and expulsion of Christians to make them a minority under NATO supervision for ‘self-determination’ to work.
In Ukraine the situation is opposite. No-ethnic cleansing is required, nobody wants to live in a trainwreck Ukraine is. Hence, Ukraine under MATO supervision is killing them to keep them in.
You’re nuts.
You make no sense whatsoever. Your “analogies” and “metaphors” are imbecilic.
But, it’s what I’d expect from someone who cannot accept reality.
What exactly is ‘imbecilic’? What you mention any logical flaw in my reasoning? How exactly ‘recognition’ makes the wrong right and vice versa?
“What exactly is ‘imbecilic’?”
This: “There is a tendency to appeal to public opinion on issues wuere it leans nothing.”
Aside from the gibberish, which I assume are typos, it is not pertinent or related to anything I said.
Then there is this: “Like forty experts agree that 2+2=5. Who cares what they think if the opposite is true? If the public decides that you are a camel would you eat bush and grow a hump?”
Imbecilic. Straw man. Non-sequitur.
A grammar Nazi backing real Nazis is not surprising.
What straw man?
You have just said that the difference between Kosovo and Crimea is international recognition even though there is no such criteria in the UN charter. According to the UN the defining factor is the will on the people on the land.
The difference between human and camel is in genetics and as far from public opinion .
Would you become a camel if the public recognizes you as such?
If not then why Kosovo can part with Serbia but Crimea can’t part with Ukraine?
People of Kosovo wanted to stay in Serbia, international opinion decided otherwise. In Crimea the situation is opposite.
Now tell me who are the camel?:) If you don’t get the analogy then you are deprived of abstract thinking and should resort to menial labor instead of discussing politics.
“What straw man?”
Your imbecilic comment as referenced previously.
“You have just said that the difference between Kosovo and Crimea is international recognition even though there is no such criteria in the UN charter.”
The UN recognizes Crimea as being “under illegal occupation.” The UN recognizes Crimea as still being part of Ukraine.
Only 14 countries worldwide recognize Russia’s annexation of Crimea (yes, the usual suspects; but not even China recognizes it):
1. Afghanistan
2. Armenia
3. Belarus
4. Bolivia
5. Cuba
6. Kazakhstan
7. Kyrgyzstan
8. North Korea
9. Nicaragua
10. Russia
11. Sudan
12. Syria
13. Venezuela
14. Zimbabwe
Also, here is a good article about the background:
“The difference between human and camel is in genetics and as far from public opinion. Would you become a camel if the public recognizes you as such?”
Childish imbecility.
“If not then why Kosovo can part with Serbia but Crimea can’t part with Ukraine?”
Crimea CAN part with Ukraine, if it is done LEGALLY. It was NOT.
As for Kosovo, in 1999 Kosovo became a UN Transitional Administrative State, to have autonomy within Serbia. Serb troops withdrew. The KFOR was established in Kosovo to keep the peace.
Kosovo sought independence, but Russia, as a member of the UN Security Council with veto power, opposed any independence for Kosovo unless BOTH Serbia and Kosovo agreed to it. Makes sense. But that is NOT the position Russia took vis-a-vis Crimea and Ukraine; there, Russia took the position that Ukraine had no say in the matter! Why is that?
In 2004, political unrest broke out between the ethnic Serbs in Kosovo and the ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. In 2006 there were international negotiations to determine the final status of Kosovo under UN Security Council Resolution 1244. There was little agreement between the parties as to Kosovo’s ultimate status.
In 2007 a settlement was proposed for “supervised independence,” pursuant to UN Security Council resolution. Russia started throwing up road blocks, as it said the resolution as presented would undermine Serbia’s sovereignty. Again, contrast that with today where Russia gives no credence to Ukrainian sovereignty.
In 2008 Kosovo declared independence, with some 95 UN nations recognizing it.
“People of Kosovo wanted to stay in Serbia, international opinion decided otherwise. In Crimea the situation is opposite.”
Which people? The ethnic Serbs, yes; the ethnic Albanians, no.
“Now tell me who are the camel?:) If you don’t get the analogy then you are deprived of abstract thinking and should resort to menial labor instead of discussing politics.”
The analogy is an absurdity because it not only lacks critical foundation, it is not even representative of the issue.
You keep doubling down on stupid, don’t you?
Show me the article of law saying what procedure of the secession is right and the role of international recognition in it.
Then tell me how the ethnic cleansing of the opposition to the secession until the conditions for the vote are right is better than no ethnic cleansing and a landslide vote for secession?
The only difference is ‘international opinion’ aka the vote of puppet banana republics.
“Show me the article of law saying what procedure of the secession is right and the role of international recognition in it.”
Read the Ukrainian Constitution, clown. It says such referenda must be put to ALL citizens of Ukraine for a vote, not just those in the areas that want to secede. International law generally follows national law.
Go ahead, you can google it.
As for Kosovo, the 2006 Serbian Constitution identifies Kosovo as an Autonomous Province and an integral part of Serbia, but with “substantial autonomy”.
However, the Venice Commission (a group of European constitutional scholars) concluded that the Serbian constitution is worded in such a way that such autonomy is not guaranteed, but that the conditions of and for autonomy rest with the legislature.
“Then tell me how the ethnic cleansing of the opposition to the secession until the conditions for the vote are right is better than no ethnic cleansing and a landslide vote for secession?”
The “ethnic cleansing of the opposition to the secession” would necessarily refer to those Ukrainians who wanted Ukraine to remain united (i.e., NOT the secessionists or their Russian handlers). So, you are suggesting that those Ukrainians who were for union were or are to be ethnically cleansed. Well, at least you admit it; though I think your Russian bosses would not be too happy with you.
In the matter of Serbia, it consists of Serbia “proper,” and the two autonomous provinces of Vojodina (in the north) and Kosovo (in the South); all comprise the country of Serbia. Ethnic Serbs living in Kosovo opposed Kosovo’s secession. If there has been any ethnic cleansing of them it is one of the best held secrets, because I have been unable to find any reports of such ethnic cleansing (other than the ethnic cleansing of Serbs living in Croatia during the 1990s wars). Of course, there is the well-documented reports of the ethnic cleansing of ethnic Albanians in Kosovo by the Serbs during the 1990s wars. But I suspect you are not thinking of that. So, can you direct me to reports of the ethnic cleansing of ethnic Serbs in Kosovo? I know that after the Kosovo War (ended in 1999) about 100,000 ethnic Serbs in Kosovo were sent to Serbia proper, but over 100,000 still remained (and are still in Kosovo to this day).
An interesting fact: In March 2014, Russia used Kosovo’s 2008 declaration of independence as a justification for recognizing the independence of Crimea, citing the so-called “Kosovo independence precedent.” So, I guess Russia is now accepting Kosovo’s independence? If not, its hypocrisy is extraordinary.
“The only difference is ‘international opinion’ aka the vote of puppet banana republics.”
By puppet banana republics you must be referring to the 14 countries that recognize Crimea’s secession:
1. Afghanistan
2. Armenia
3. Belarus
4. Bolivia
5. Cuba
6. Kazakhstan
7. Kyrgyzstan
8. North Korea
9. Nicaragua
10. Russia
11. Sudan
12. Syria
13. Venezuela
14. Zimbabwe
Yup, there are indeed some banana republics in that list.
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