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The West Leaves Ukraine Outgunned Against Russia
Wall Street Journal ^ | July 12, 2022 1:12 pm ET | Jillian Kay Melchio

Posted on 07/12/2022 12:20:56 PM PDT by Zhang Fei

But Russia has adjusted during the second phase of the war by hiding its men behind its fearsome artillery. “Russian artillery has been the decisive factor, but only because it’s had to be the decisive factor,” says Mason Clark, a senior analyst and Russia team lead at the Institute for the Study of War.

Russia has at least 10 times as many artillery and missile systems as Ukraine, and in some places on the front line the disparity is closer to 20 to 1, former Defense Minister Andriy Zagorodnyuk says.

With a range of hundreds of miles Russian missiles can strike anywhere in Ukraine. Recent attacks in the western region of Lviv were a short distance from the Polish border. On June 27, President Volodymyr Zelensky estimated that Russia had used “almost 2,800 different cruise missiles” and “hundreds of thousands” of air bombs and rockets against Ukraine.

In contrast, Ukraine’s Western partners have imposed political constraints on the use of donated systems for attacks on Russian territory, and the range of Ukraine’s weapons is limited even on its own soil. Ukraine’s surface-to-surface systems can reach some 75 miles away at maximum with its Vilkha and Tochka missiles, but those are in short supply, Mr. Zagorodnyuk says. Along much of the front line, Ukraine fights with howitzers that have a range of only some 15 miles. Russia often relies on similar systems, but its ground-based rockets can also reach much farther into Ukrainian-controlled territory.

With less ammunition to use, “the Ukrainians have to be much more careful, much more selective, and they can’t hit the same number of targets”. The Russians often have multiple posts behind the front line performing the same supportive functions, so even a successful Ukrainian strike on a target may not cause much disruption.

(Excerpt) Read more at wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: 600dayonmylaptop; alliesofschwab; anotherneoconfail; biden; bidenbuttboys; butthurtneocons; chechens; chechnya; deathtochechnya; deathtoneocons; deathtoputin; deathtorussia; dodindustrialcomplex; friendsofsoros; friendsofvindman; liberalworldorder; mccainlives; neocons4biden; pedos4biden; pedosforputin; penispianoplayer; putin; putinlovertrollsonfr; putinsbuttboys; putinworshippers; russia; russianaggression; scottritter; slobberukraini; sorosfanclub; ukraine; ukraineislosing; warofthekeywords; warprofiteers; zelenskypuffers; zelenskysbuttboys; zelenskyworshippers; zottheneoconshills; zottherussiantrolls; zotthezelenskybots
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To: Miguk

[Interesting take, but it would not at all surprise me that PedoClown, TheWhore, the US Congress, oligarchs, drug cartels, the M.I.C., the EU, and now Russia are all passing the hat to each other.

Or that PedoClown is not unsurprisingly also on the Russia Russia Russia payroll, in some 10% way (owned by China and the mafia and intelligence agencies, may as well get his cut from Russia, too).]


Newspapers don’t have the money to do any real investigation. Most of their material comes from walk-ins. Some guy with an ax to grind contacts them and drops compromising materials onto their laps. The alphabet agencies aren’t about to investigate a Democrat. Republicans are the real enemy.

Putin’s not about to say Joe Biden’s on his payroll. Even if Biden was working against him. Putin has any number of foreign pols on retainer. The idea is to set them at ease about taking money from him. If they can help him, he appreciates it, and there’s more money where that came from. If not, maybe they can do business some other time. As king in all but name, Putin has a $1.5T economy he can work with to pay off people useful to him. A few million here and there is walking around money.


61 posted on 07/12/2022 7:42:04 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
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To: Zhang Fei

*smiling*


62 posted on 07/12/2022 7:43:36 PM PDT by logi_cal869 (-cynicus the "concern troll" a/o 10/03/2018 /!i!! &@$%&*(@ -)
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To: Zhang Fei
If no amount of weapons will change that fact, why is Russia making continuous threats against the West for supplying that weaponry?

1) The weapons are being used to target civilians in Donetsk 2) They will increase Russian causalities.

That being said, the Ukrainians, by their own admission, are losing a 1000 troops A DAY. They are running tanks and aircraft. They are resorting to drafting men against their will and women.

But, those running this proxy war don't care how many Ukrainians die or if there is anything left of Ukraine, all they care about is "hurting" Russia. It's sick mentality. It's more evidence we're the new evil empire.

63 posted on 07/12/2022 8:02:37 PM PDT by Kazan
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To: Zhang Fei
Does this sound like a side that has any chance of winning?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10998887/Conscripts-given-call-papers-beaches-Ukraine.html

This restriction of movement for men aged 18 to 60 was criticised by President Volodymyr Zelensky and revoked, but it highlights the struggle for a nation suffering more than 20,000 casualties a month – officials admit up to 200 troops are killed and 800 wounded daily.

###

amid fears that the true scale of losses is being understated to keep up morale. One woman complained that officials even chased an 18-year-old riding his bicycle to serve his call-up documents. ‘It’s like some kind of wild boar hunt,’ she said.

###

Serhiy, 42, wants to take care of his elderly parents, his wife and daughters rather than risk death or serious injury on the front line – and despite serving in the military two decades ago, worries he would receive minimal training before being sent into battle.

‘Why do you need to send to war a person who doesn’t want to go there if, like me, they aren’t motivated or properly trained?’ he said. ‘Yes, I served in the military 20 years ago, but didn’t learn much and don’t remember anything.

64 posted on 07/12/2022 8:14:44 PM PDT by Kazan
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To: Kazan; marcusmaximus; Paul R.; Bruce Campbells Chin; PIF; familyop; MercyFlush; tet68; BeauBo; ...

[Does this sound like a side that has any chance of winning?]


Ukraine ping

Draft resistance is normal. During the Civil War:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots

In Russia, hiding from the draft is an annual ritual. And that’s in peacetime:


https://www.newsweek.com/dodging-draft-russian-style-293316
[Every April and October the color khaki seems to suddenly sprout on the streets as bands of young soldiers appear in the cities; skinny, in uniforms either too large or small, with pinched red noses and red ears, scowling at the Maybachs and gold-leaf restaurants.

They hang around at the entrances of metro stations where the warm air gusts up from the underground, shiver while sucking on tepid beer on street corners of major thoroughfares. They come shuffling up stairs and knocking on apartment doors and stalk through parks.

It’s the time of year of Russia’s great annual hide and seek. The soldiers have been given orders to catch young men dodging the draft and force them to join the army. Military service might be mandatory for healthy males between eighteen and twenty-seven, but anyone who can avoids it.

The most common way out is a medical certificate. Some play mad, spending a month at a psychiatric clinic. Their mothers will bring them in. “My son is psychologically disturbed,” they will say. “He has been threatening me with violence, he wakes up crying.”

The doctors of course know they are pretending and the bribe to stay a month in a loony bin will set you back thousands of dollars. You will never be forced to join up again—the mad are not trusted with guns—but you will also have a certificate of mental illness hanging over you for the rest of your career.

Other medical solutions are more short term: a week in the hospital with a supposedly injured hand or back. This will have to be repeated every year and annually the hospitals fill up with pimply youths simulating illness.

But the medical route takes months of preparation: finding the right doctor, the right ailment—because the ailments that can get you off change all the time. You turn up at the military center with the little stamped registration card that your mother has spent months organizing and saving for, then find that this year flat feet or shortsightedness are no longer a legal excuse.]


People dodge the draft. Always have and always will. Formations even retreat in the face of the enemy. Russians ran from the Germans even though they knew the Germans wanted to kill them all. Russia got over it and won anyway. Stalin instituted barrier units to kill retreating Russian troops. Hundreds of thousands ran from the enemy, among whose survivors (of machine-gunning and shelling by Russian barrier units) 10,000 got the death penalty. The reality of war is coercion unthinkable in peacetime:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_troops#In_the_Red_Army
[The concept was re-introduced on a large scale during the Second World War.[5] On June 27, 1941, in response to reports of unit disintegration in battle and desertion from the ranks in the Soviet Red Army, the 3rd Department (military counterintelligence of Soviet Army) of the USSR’s People’s Commissariat of Defense of the USSR [ru] (NKO) issued a directive establishing mobile barrier forces composed of NKVD personnel to operate on roads, railways, forests, etc. for the purpose of catching “deserters and suspicious persons”.[6][7] With the continued deterioration of the military situation in the face of the German offensive of 1941, NKVD detachments acquired a new mission: to prevent the unauthorized withdrawal of Red Army forces from the battle line.[6][7] The first troops of this kind were formed in the Bryansk Front on September 5, 1941.

On September 12, 1941 Joseph Stalin issued the Stavka Directive No. 1919 (Директива Ставки ВГК №001919) concerning the creation of barrier troops in rifle divisions of the Southwestern Front, to suppress panic retreats. Each Red Army division was to have an anti-retreat detachment equipped with transport totaling one company for each regiment. Their primary goal was to maintain strict military discipline and to prevent disintegration of the front line by any means.[8] These barrier troops were usually formed from ordinary military units and placed under NKVD command.

In 1942, after Stavka Directive No. 227 (Директива Ставки ВГК №227) issued on 28 July 1942, set up penal battalions, anti-retreat detachments were used to prevent withdrawal or desertion by penal units as well. Penal military unit personnel were always rearguarded by NKVD anti-retreat detachments, and not by regular Red Army infantry forces.[6] As per Order No. 227, each Army should have had 3–5 barrier squads of up to 200 persons each.

A report to the Commissar General of State Security (NKVD chief) Lavrentiy Beria on October 10, 1941, noted that since the beginning of the war, NKVD anti-retreat troops had detained a total of 657,364 retreating, spies, traitors, instigators and deserting personnel, of which 25,878 were arrested (of which 10,201 were sentenced to death by court martial and the rest were returned to active duty).[9]

At times, barrier troops were involved in battle operations along with regular soldiers, as noted by Aleksandr Vasilevsky in his directive N 157338 from October 1, 1942.

Order No. 227 also stipulated the capture or shooting of “cowards” and fleeing panicked troops at the rear the blocking detachments, who in the first three months shot 1,000 penal troops and sent 24,993 to penal battalions.[10] By October 1942 the idea of regular blocking detachments was quietly dropped, and on 29 October 1944 Stalin officially ordered the disbanding of the units.[11] ]


65 posted on 07/12/2022 8:51:29 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
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To: Zhang Fei

20.000$ for running away from war - sensational details from intercepted occupiers’ calls
https://youtu.be/2TljMjw4_NQ


66 posted on 07/12/2022 9:47:12 PM PDT by familyop ("For they that sleep with dogs, shall rise with fleas" (John Webster, "The White Devil" 1612).)
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To: Zhang Fei

At least 37,500 Russian troops killed since Russia invaded Ukraine
https://youtu.be/_qlgwnFbmZk


67 posted on 07/12/2022 9:49:28 PM PDT by familyop ("For they that sleep with dogs, shall rise with fleas" (John Webster, "The White Devil" 1612).)
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To: Kazan

None of you Russian simps have really shown any genuine concern for civilians in the Ukraine.It is only propaganda faux concern to push your abysmal agit prop.

There are a lot of bad actors on FR now. Maybe GRU or Russian armchair patriots, or sickos who think homosexual Ukrainians are coming for them. I think FR needs a purge.

And no, I don’t think people who disagree with intervention or even those who think Russia might have valid concerns should be purged. But people who clog up the forum with stupid posts about Zylensky, or homosexual conspiracies, or the Ukrainians asking for it by not surrendering right away are trash.


68 posted on 07/12/2022 10:19:18 PM PDT by Dat
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To: Zhang Fei

Most weapons sent to Ukraine are sequestered in depots in the center of the country, according to the people of Ukraine.

This at the behest of Andrey Yermak who runs the Ukraine Presidential Administration, and so the country. (something Zelinski does not). He has long been associated with the KGB and later the FSB. Most Ukrainians believe the PA are spies and working for the Orcs.


69 posted on 07/13/2022 2:18:35 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: marcusmaximus; Paul R.; Bruce Campbells Chin; PIF; familyop; MercyFlush; tet68; BeauBo; TalBlack; ..

[Most weapons sent to Ukraine are sequestered in depots in the center of the country, according to the people of Ukraine.

This at the behest of Andrey Yermak who runs the Ukraine Presidential Administration, and so the country. (something Zelinski does not). He has long been associated with the KGB and later the FSB. Most Ukrainians believe the PA are spies and working for the Orcs.]


Ukraine ping

Maybe that’s the nation’s strategic reserve, just to tide it over in case the West gets cold feet/aid fatigue and decides to taper/end equipment/ammo shipments. The difference between Russia and the Taliban? Russia has a much better PR operation. And yet the US backed off from fighting the Taliban anyway.

Are there Russian agents embedded in the Ukrainian high command? Possibly. But if this Congresslady is looking for reasons Ukraine is stalled out and losing a little territory, I’d look at (1) the 50,000 shells the Russians are slinging daily and (2) Biden’s rationing of equipment and ammo. AFAIK, Biden has authorized emergency measures in relation to baby powder, solar panels and other green items under the Defense Production Act. But he hasn’t done this for actual military items needed in Ukraine.


70 posted on 07/13/2022 10:42:29 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
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To: Zhang Fei

Maybe that’s the nation’s strategic reserve

It is not a “strategic reserve”, its a way for the KGB/FSB to ensure Ukraine loses. Yermak is a known Russian operative. See backstory.


71 posted on 07/13/2022 10:48:52 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: marcusmaximus; Paul R.; Bruce Campbells Chin; PIF; familyop; MercyFlush; tet68; BeauBo; TalBlack; ..

[It is not a “strategic reserve”, its a way for the KGB/FSB to ensure Ukraine loses. Yermak is a known Russian operative. See backstory.]


Ukraine ping

How much of the backstory is a Russian information operation? Igor Danchenko is the Russian guy who fingered Trump as someone in Putin’s pocket. Was Danchenko a Russian agent working for Putin, but masquerading as a dissident? Yermak might be working for Putin or he might not.

The fact that Burisma’s owner Zlochevsky spent 5 years working in pro-Russian administrations - that’s undeniable. And he kept paying Biden millions even when Biden was out of office. Zlochevsky is rich, but he’s not that rich. Putin is that rich. Helps for Putin to have the entire Russian economy at his beck and call.


72 posted on 07/13/2022 10:57:03 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
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To: Zhang Fei

Too bad, We have thrown too much money at this nonsense already. Never should have sent a flat dime.


73 posted on 07/13/2022 10:59:51 AM PDT by dforest (We have to put a stop to this now.)
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To: Zhang Fei

Maybe if you read what I transcribed you would understand what’s going on. Which has little to nothing to with the tact you are taking.

Principles are ex-President Yanukovich, Andrey Yermak, Oleg Tatarov, Andrey Portnov, Alexey Arestovich, Oleg Deripaska. There is no question in any Ukrainian’s mind that Yermak works for Russia, as do all of the above named individuals.

That Yermak heads the Ukraine Government’s Presidential Administration is a fact, not disinformation. That the Presidential Administration alone runs the country is also a fact.

Danchenko, Zlochevsky, Trump play no part in this story.


74 posted on 07/13/2022 12:34:34 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: marcusmaximus; Paul R.; Bruce Campbells Chin; PIF; familyop; MercyFlush; tet68; BeauBo; TalBlack; ..

[Maybe if you read what I transcribed you would understand what’s going on. Which has little to nothing to with the tact you are taking.

Principles are ex-President Yanukovich, Andrey Yermak, Oleg Tatarov, Andrey Portnov, Alexey Arestovich, Oleg Deripaska. There is no question in any Ukrainian’s mind that Yermak works for Russia, as do all of the above named individuals.

That Yermak heads the Ukraine Government’s Presidential Administration is a fact, not disinformation. That the Presidential Administration alone runs the country is also a fact.]


I’d read every word. Kudos for the work you put into it. I’m just not convinced. This is the kind of thing the Russians are pretty good at - sowing discord. Is there a Benedict Arnold in the Ukrainian administration? Maybe, maybe not.

George Washington was intimately linked with the Crown, having served as a militia colonel in the French and Indian War. And he sure lost a bunch of his early campaigns. Did not mean he was working for the Crown.


75 posted on 07/13/2022 1:24:25 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
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To: Zhang Fei

“This is the kind of thing the Russians are pretty good at - sowing discord.”

Always appreciate your well-reasoned comments.


76 posted on 07/13/2022 1:35:59 PM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com (et, so serving on the front:)
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To: Zhang Fei

The entire thing is a Russian op, which is the point I was making - the history of those individual makes it no other way. The original op was to divide the people along language/ethnic lines which they successfully did. Yermak and crew are the enforcers and saboteurs.

But to listen to you the only conclusion must be they are really good guys and have been given a bad rap by the Orcs. Come on man!

It matters not what you are convinced about, but it matters what the Ukrainian people are convinced about.


77 posted on 07/13/2022 1:37:39 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: Kazan
"Those running this proxy war [Russian Invasion] don't care how many die" RUSSIAN OCTOPUS - 1877 https://news.yahoo.com/russian-troops-suffer-greatest-casualties-124400244.html Putin is evil! Indiscriminate killing of Russian military, Ukraine military, civilian population all for his new Russian Empire hallucination!
78 posted on 07/13/2022 2:40:14 PM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com (et, so serving on the front:)
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To: Dat
None of you Russian simps have really shown any genuine concern for civilians in the Ukraine

I have -- it's the Ukrainian neo-Nazis and nationalists that have used civilians as human shields and killed them if they try to escape. The Ukrainian military is intentionally targeting civilians in Donbas.

Unlike you, I've seen the videos of the civilians testifying to all that.

Stop pretending like the Ukrainians the good guys in this war. They aren't. And, under the Biden regime, we've become the evil empire, either approving or tolerating it all.

79 posted on 07/13/2022 7:31:37 PM PDT by Kazan
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To: Kazan

“Unlike you, I’ve seen the videos of the civilians testifying to all that.”

Please evil do NOT make such statements judging other Freepers regarding this Russian Invasion. I have seen multiple videos from Ukrainian ‘friends.’ I know what evil has come to Ukraine from the “invasions.”

Also, I have friends in Russia. Why are you not allowed to criticize Putin and the government in Russia?
Why does it appear to be little to no opposition in Russia? Why are Kremlin critics silenced? Exactly, what nerve gas was used to end the Breslan school hostage?

There are Freepers here as well that have FAMIlY MEMBERS currently living in Dombass and Russia.

REMEMBER, If PUTIN is ill, or becomes ill, would be one easy way out for Russia to say that the president has stepped down. The assassination of Soviet revolutionary Leon Trotsky was killed on the orders of Joseph Stalin by an ice pick to the head. There are at least 3 others standing in line to his THRONE every bit as nasty as he is.

So, please you DON’T MAKE ERRONEOUS PROVOCATIVE PRESUMPTIVE statements. ,

There IS AN EVIL MAN THAT CREATED THIS INVASION! HIS NAME IS PUTIN! i.e. RUSSIAN MILITARY IS RANDOMLY KILLING CITIZENS IN DOMBAS THAT USE THEIR CELL PHONES assuming they have cause Ukrainian strikes against them!

HOW MANY NATIONS HAVE CALLED PUTIN OUT, i.e. “Estonia is tirelessly reiterating that Russia has gravely violated international law by invading Ukraine and should immediately comply with the 16 March decision of the International Court. ‘We once again call on Russia to immediately withdraw its forces from Ukraine, end hostilities and respect Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders!!!”

Putin breaks national & international laws with impunity. PUTIN IS SLAUGHTERING HIS OWN MILITARY, JAILING ALL RUSSIAN CITIZENS THAT DISAGREE WITH HIS INVASION.

PUTIN IS EVIL!


80 posted on 07/13/2022 8:31:20 PM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com (et, so serving on the front:)
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