Posted on 06/29/2022 5:26:33 AM PDT by DoodleBob
He didn't call "them" an inconvenience. He called the phenomenon and inconvenience, albeit acknowledging the transcendent value to society. You'd rather he told a liberal lie about how welcoming and accommodating a business is to women? Some women still get sidelined for being pregnant after a dozen years of continuous employment, despite the company's public lies about how woke.
I realize it seems asymmetrical. But in terms of society, the U.S. has in the past had a practice of holding a job for a guy who serves in the military. Also, a married pregnant woman is part of a wage-earning family, so the man also gets a social benefit from his wife having a pregnancy stipend. This is very lopsided in a small company that may not have an equal number of child-bearing family men's wives vs fertile women employees; but in a large company, it may be a wash from male employees whose non-company wives have babies, but the men continue to come to work instead of taking some time to bond with the baby and readjust the household.
Trends in large corporations since Trump gave this interview are for fathers also to take some time off for a newborn.
Kudos to both of you for your realistic and informative points of view.
The entire point of my post is that wage differentials are almost always “explainable”. A lady letter carries was PO’ed because she was making less than a man in the same department with about the same tenure. She went to court and won. The next week she was back at work, but for the first time, was assigned to help unload the 100lb mail bags from the trucks and place them on the loading doc.
She quit two days later. Sometimes a job description, isn’t.
Pregnancy also is an inconvenience for the co-workers of the woman because they have to take up the slack during months of maternity leave, doctors appointments, etc. But it is what it is. Not complaining; just stating a fact.
Life was better for all concerned before the feminazis took over and tried to make women believe they had no value unless they had jobs in the workplace. There was an order to it. Things made sense when Moms stayed home and raised their kids.
IMHO
I started saying "Democrats just want women chained to a desk and childless."
I didn't start managing people until the 2000s so my experience is somewhat contemporary. But I know it happened...one of my female bosses told me about the "good old days" of business trips where managing directors would drunkenly knock on the hotel doors of female subordinates at 2am. And relatively recently at a prior employer, there was a scandal in the C-Suite where incompetence and romance combined for a control breakdown and major fines and regulatory scrutiny.
Nonetheless, as Sam alluded, it would be pretty hard to suppress an employee based on chromosomes. Compensation and employee performance isn't done in a vacuum...all of my boss' direct reports discuss all high (and low) performers and up-and-comers frequently, seeking ways to challenge them and give them exposure. There are some wokey things that get in the mix, but woman aren't sidelined.
That's life in a sizable corporation. I don't doubt the old boys club still exists in the middle market (or pockets of conglomerates), but honestly with the Great Resignation and supply chain problems and inflation even a misogynistic (or man-hating) manager will work like mad to retain top talent regardless of their sex.
This comment was intriguing...
I do *not* think it means they will try to influence pregnant female employees to get abortions or curtail maternal leave or benefits. But as policy, making this offer makes good sense from both a financial and a PR standpoint.
I NEVER even THOUGHT of proposing abortion "surgery" to an employee as an "option." Most employees make that announcement after the first trimester because of the risk of miscarriage early on and they don't want such a private matter to become public. Thus, if word got around that a manager told a 17-week pregnant Mary "ya know, you COULD get an abortion...the company pays for all costs..." that HR and legal would have a cow.
THAT SAID, I would NOT be surprised if sometime soon, the ghastly idea gets floated that the company is doing pregnant workers a disservice by leaving abortion off the phamplet of "what service the company offers when you're expecting." I hope that idea gets shot down as utterly insensitive and potentially hastening a good employee's departure. "look, honey....I told my boss I am preggers and the company handout has "abortion" next to "prenatal testing" as a service they offer pregnant employees. If they want me to kill our baby, maybe I should look for work elsewhere..."
Glad to hear that conditions for women have improved. Starting out in the 60s, I had to start my own business and work as a consultant to avoid the “2 AM knocks” and related issues. Funny how when a woman is “on the clock” with a detailed contract, it magically convinces the paw boyz to shut up and stick to work.
I tend to doubt that young women today would be so put off by the word “abortion” in a “pregnancy services” pamphlet that she (or he, as the case may be) would leave the company over it. But it certainly could be one straw in a pile of other straws on a camel’s back.
I’m of the generation of women who took a lot of harassment so that others later on could thrive. Good for them; but it does gall me that the entire thrust of civil rights seems to be turning the corporations into socialism/communism. Benefits for this, benefits for that; holidays for this, holidays for that; leave time for this, leave time for that; donations for this, donations for that... how do companies get any work done? All the costs are passed on and are impoverishing the working public.
Funny you should mention the late night drunken boss. I once had this super lame boss whose jobs I had to do on top of my own. He had no clue how to handle a major fast food account we had, so I had to handle it on top of the soft drink accounts, pharmaceutical accounts, etc., I already handled.
We had to go to the big fast food HQ several times a year, abd usually I went without him, but this time it was the big rollout for the next year’s super secret marketing plans so he had to go or risk it becoming clear it was I who was doing his job. We were in meetings from 7am until after dinner every day, then had “homework”, as we all jokingly called it, in the evenings. Stupid boss had no idea how to do the homework, so I had to do his and mine both while he got drunk in the bar downstairs. It got to be 10pm and still no word from him, so I put on my nightgown and had just got into bed when he knocked on my hotel door.
I put on my robe, got his homework and opened the door to give it to him, when he lunged at me and would have been all over me (already had both arms around me trying to pull me in and trying for a slobbery kiss) — so I punched him hard in the stomach. Tiny little me! (I was quite shocked at myself!) He fell on his side in the hallway and started puking. I made sure he wasn’t hurt, and stayed rolled to the side until he was done puking (didn’t want him to aspirate and croak), then shut my door and left him there.
Next morning, he was all apologies and scared. He had a wife, a toddler and a new baby. I told him if it never happened again, I would pretend that time never happened. But if it did ... boy howdy he was in trouble. Ever afterward, whenever I had to meet with him alone in his office, I made a show of getting a cup of very hot coffee. The first time, I commented how hot it was and how awful it would if it got spilled in a lap. After that, just the steaming cup sufficed. ;) It even got to be a bit of a jokey thing between us, but we both knew I was dead serious.
This was in the mid 80s. Had it happened fifteen years later, I could have got a nice settlement, especially with a hotel hallway security camera providing by proof. I seriously doubt I could have brought myself to put his wife and kids through that, though, and probably would have handled it the same unless it was really really bad and I could not fight him off. In such a serious case, I would of course have called the cops.
I hadn’t considered the benefits pamphlet angle. Whoa. Darned if you do, darned if you don’t. The wokey women might object if the abortion deal isn’t on a pamphlet. I guess the safest thing would be to list it on a “reproductive health” benefits pamphlet along with pap smears, contraceptives, etc.? Yeah, I hate when it’s called “reproductive health” (what a lie), but you are right — it would look ugly listed under pregnancy/maternal health benefits.
Thank you again for an edifying and engaging conversation. They are getting rarer and rarer here.
And on behalf of women like me - graduate degree, started in the finance industry in 2005 - so I was probably around the second generation to hit the workforce after you blazed the trail, I want to say thank you for all you did and put up with. Because of you and women like you I didn't have to put of with harassment or compromise myself to get ahead at my job.
Also, I know some conservative businesswomen who are FEARLESS but not in a whiney/Ms Magazine way. That's an attribute that earns respect, and something that teaches youngsters how to act. They're teaching female Deplorable GenZers how it's done. It's wonderful.
Re: contemporary costs/distractions...a popular phrase nowadays is "bring your authentic self to work." To be fair, Blackberry etc blurred the work/life line and I easily put in more hours nowadays vs before gadgets: thus I understand why companies bend on holidays etc. And at the risk of sounding progressive, I don't mind the corporate groups championing this or that cause AS LONG AS IT IS FAIR. I see the Women's support group AND Veterans groups alongside each other, and if it doesn't detract from my day job then I don't care. Forced "you must go to this session on global warming" activities are where I draw the line, but (at my employer) it's not happening.
Thank you for paving the way.
Your comment touched my heart. Thank you so much.
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