Posted on 06/12/2022 11:03:00 AM PDT by Mount Athos
“but this is America and Russia is our enemy,”
No, they are not. Stop with the histrionics and go breath into a brown paper bag.
Our money was supposed to be funneled in accounts of family members of Congress, Senate, and the Biden Cartel.
Maybe it got diverted or snagged, because our corruptocrats keep flying over there to find it, and they don't look happy.
I’ve got to admit, the whole money laundering angle baffles me.
Putin’s oligarchs were a trillion dollars richer collectively than they were in 1992, at the start of this contract. From a starting point of being comparitively low paid officials in the fsb or being factory owners.
If you’re saying America’s kleptocracy made only a few billion dollars here and there by farting about in Ukraine for eight years, then Russia has all the ruthless business acumen demonstrated by Number Two, while the USA is populared by MBA cretins still sniggering at the idea of blackmailing the world for One Meelion Dollars like Doctor Evil.
Time to start tipping their chairs over into the shark pen not because they’ve been stealing lots of money but because, compared to Putin’s Zaibatsu, they’re unfeasibly useless at it.
That was a lot of babbling. What’s your point?
There were far easier ways to get far, far richer, far far more quickly, than wheeler-dealing for chump change in Ukraine, one of the poorest countries near Europe.
Unless the big money was Russian, it makes no sense.
Tony Blair’s son became a dollar bilionaire by trading property and investing in a tech business. Legally.
Westerners can clearly get far far richer, far quicker, with less risk, by running a legit business, starting a hedge fund and providing venture capital to unicorn tech businesses. Which is how Jacob Rees-Mogg and Nigel Farage both got rich.
That’s the essence of this joke in Austin Powers.
Nice try. Putin freaks are easy to spot. Got your I 💕 PUTIN yard signs and number stickers? How about Putin posters? lol
“Putin freaks are easy to spot.”
Of course they are because the Zelensky liberals like you are so radically different you homos stand out. All the liberal freaks scream for attention and make themselves stand out.
Part of money laundering is to appear like you are not doing it. Biden was happy getting tens of millions through Barisma.
Funny...
Well, we disagree on what is causing our long term problems, and I would add that the issues you mention are already and have been for some time present. Ukraine just intensifies them.. But, back to causes...
1. US energy problems have been manufactured here. We can’t blame the EU, the Russians, the Chinese, etc. The Biden administration has throttled energy production domestically and is generally pursuing an incoherent energy policy (lately on a begging mission to get the Saudis to increase oil production - a regime he once said he would make an international pariah).
2. We have not only a rare earths problem, but also a critical shortage of neon and other important materials needed in the tech industry. Again, the US has done this to itself by refusing to provide mining permits domestically and by failing to recognize these commodities have a strategic importance. This problem has a bipartisan provenance. I favor free trade, but we don’t live in a frictionless, harmonious world, and we (the US) should not be relying on an overseas supply chains for strategic materials (or components for weapons systems).
3. As for food cost inflation here, it also is something “we “ have done to ourselves. This can be laid mainly at the feet of the Biden administration, although prior administrations contributed by failing to recognize that potash and other materials are strategic for maintaining maximum food security.
4. I don’t know what connection between fuel prices and spyware you are suggesting, but spyware/malware has been a problem for a long time with many sources. We do have a major tech supply chain issue the US allowed to develop that has already compromised communications and other industries. That has to do with China, not Russia. Nor is Russia likely to have anything much to do with that supply chain problem in the foreseeable future.
My list wasn’t meant to be exhaustive, and there is nothing “short-term” about those problems. Every significant international actor is contributing to the creation of the “long-term” through it’s actions in the present. Ukraine was a peaceful, relatively corrupt backwater until the coup. That coup began the process that got us here. I do believe that the US government was the prime mover in that immoral catastrophe, but the Europeans supported it and could have stopped the Obama administration. I’ve never denied that Putin is a Russian nationalist, but if revanchism were a high priority for him, it was not in evidence prior to 2014. After all, Russia could have held Georgia easily, if it had wanted to. Instead, it neutralized it vis NATO and got out in short order. I would remind you that for decades Russia tried to pull closer to the West, but it was pushed away. The “future” those actions created is that Russia is now aligning with China and the Global South to create a multipolar world. That, not revanchism, is Russia’s main thrust. Of course, the West can lead Russia decide that it needs more of a security buffer if we continue to act aggressively. That is not me “supporting” further Russian military action, I am just telling you what is likely under certain circumstances.
You speak of “allowing” Russians to “hit” more countries. As I mentioned, further Russian action is possible if the West continues to fail t seek a diplomatic solution to the Ukraine disaster (I do realize that there is some recognition of the this in DC, London, and Brussels). As for your language about “permitting”, my assessment is that NATO is no match for the Russians in a conventional war. The European militaries don’t amount to much, and the US main forces are far away. In any event, the US military is far, far less formidable than it once was. I won’t belabor this, but I don’t think Europeans know how we have hollowed out our military as a fighting force. Let me hasten to say that we bear sole responsibility for that problem. If a conventional war would not go well, what do we do? Go nuclear? That’s the end of civilization.
My view of the prospects for a conventional war is certainly disputable, but even a conventional war would be a disaster for all of us, which is why I think Kissinger and others have proposed the only solution that avoids something far worse. If you fear Russian expansionism, then you need time to develop a military that will deter Russia short of nuclear weapons.
Your generalization about Americans being “egocentric” is odd. What would be accurate is to say that Western governments have been infected by a neoconservative or neoliberal (make your choice) messianic vision. I know that most Americans do not support that vision, and I suspect that most Europeans don’t either. Unfortunately, the people on either side of the Atlantic do not control their political classes. Here we have a low level civil war of sorts going on. Social cohesion in Europe may be weaker than it is here.
While people can argue about the “causes” and “rights and wrongs” of the Ukraine, anyone who follows the independent press (and sly admissions by Western governments that are often buried in the usual volume of government nonsense), knows that 1. the Russians have won in the Donbass and the South. What is going on is just mopping up. 2. There needs to be a diplomatic solution. 3. We need to change our supply chains. 4. We need to try to pull Russia away from the Chinese. 5. We need a better group of political leaders. 7. Klaus Schwab and the WEF need to be put down. 8. The US needs to save the dollar by taking a chainsaw to budgets and increasing interest rates (this is a fantasy, I know, because the special interests have too much power and we have created a large dependent population), 9. we need to reject the “Green Energy” fetish, and 10. Europe also needs to reevaluate it’s social and fiscal policies.
What will be done? Probably not nearly enough. The Biden administration is trying to conduct a controlled demolition of the US economy (Biden himself is only nominally President. He doesn’t know where he is half the time). Our midterms may stave that off for a while. Longer-term, the dollar is probably finished (which has been the fate of all fiat currencies in history). The Euro is already dying, and I don’t see the political will to save it, and, like the US, the European political class is impoverishing Europe.
No empire lasts forever, and I don’t think the “Empire of the West” is an exception. IF I am right, we will have done it to ourselves. Time will tell. One bright spot is that China is far weaker than most realize. It has massive financial problems, demographic problems, and internal divisions.
Please ask your caregiver.
Thanks for tte very well considered breakdown.
One point I’d contest:
“I’ve never denied that Putin is a Russian nationalist, but if revanchism were a high priority for him, it was not in evidence prior to 2014.”
I wouldn’t.
As Zhirinovsky himself said repeatedly - and Dugin also said - Putin was playing a long fame. They both agreed that revanchism was as much a part of Putin’s motives as it was theirs, but thought Putin was being too slow. Despite him having already rolled Chechnya and Georgia over, ensured Belarus’ compliance, and getting access to the Wagner private army so military operations could be performed with plausible deniability.
I think things would’ve been far more obvious butnfor one thing: Euromaidan queered the pitch.
If Ukraine hadn’t protested the abandonment of the European Union FTA, Yanukovych’s deal would’ve gone unchallenged; that deal was designed to crash Ukraine’s economy in six months; and Russia would have flown in to the rescue.
Which would’ve made Ukraine the fourth former Soviet Socialist Republic to end up back inside the Russian polar orbit in less than 20 years. No NATO expansion in that area. Land bridge to Transnistia. Unimpeded access to Ukraine’s mineral, agricultural and coastal assets.
Full leverage.
I agree that the Russians are playing a long game, but in my view that long game is by far more oriented toward economics and multipolarity than any interest in additional territory becoming part of the Russian Federation. My belief is that Russia would like to stop with the Donbass and the south to Transnistria. Those are the largely ethnic Russian areas and are viewed as easy to hold. Absent the West raising the bar of Russian security concerns, they don’t want to be responsible for the rest of Ukraine - the areas that voted heavily for Tymoshenko. The Russians will, however, insist that it is neutral and largely demilitarized. Trying to absorb that part of the Ukraine would be, for the Russians, like swallowing a porcupine. As for the Ukrainian rump state that is likely to emerge, it will be interesting to see what the Poles do. Nobody seems to be paying much attention to Zelensky’s agreement with the Poles that appears to be something on the order of a backdoor merger. My view is that the Poles see what is inevitable in the east and south and are positioning themselves to reclaim Galicia as, perhaps, some sort of protectorate. We shall see.
We disagree on the extent of Russia’s territorial ambitions, but I have acknowledge those could change, especially if Finland and Sweden join NATO. The main thing is to avoid WW III and to set our own houses right. As for the US, as strange as it may seem to you, I think there’s a chance that it will cease to exist in its current geographical form within 20 years. This country is profoundly divided. Our domestic, and especially our fiscal and monetary, policies have been mostly odious since the 60s, and the same can be said for our foreign policy since at least the end of the Gulf War. The consequences of those bad policies are an important, but not the only, driver of the centrifugal forces causing things to unravel here. I have little idea what Europe can do practically to change course, but I hope the healthy, sane part of the people find a way.
I know you don’t want to acknowledge this, but Russia entered a military alliance against us with China, before the Ukraine invasion.
They are also allied with Iran,Syria, and just about every bad actor in the world.
They have been threatening to nuke us and our allies just about every week. That right there makes Russia an enemy.
“They have been threatening to nuke us and our allies just about every week. That right there makes Russia an enemy.”
No, they have not. That’s just more of your histrionics talking. Grow up. We have threatened Russia with nuclear weapons, surrounding them with NATO nukes.
How would you feel if Russia placed nukes in Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Bahamas, Canada, Mexico, all over, all around? Well, we did just that to them.
Screw off Russian apologist and liar.
NO ONE has threatened Russia with war n much less nuclear war
And yes, Russia has repeatedly and openly threatened nuclear attack for months now.
They are an enemy, and so are YOU.
I note how all you creepy bastards keep accusing people who point out Russia’s aggressive actions as “hyperventilating” and so forth.
Pure gaslighting propaganda tactics by enemies of the United States.
You should seek a mental health professional for your Russian neurosis.
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