Thank you for responding. Your answers explain a lot.
If you have no interests in the motive either real or imagined of your enemy, don’t know or care about historical perspectives in regards to this conflict/war/security operation/police action, but want everyone to join in and fight and condemn Russia, I think you’re misinformed about how the US uses it’s allies.
Where do I “stand”? I stand with the United States of America. I’m looking at the horizon and I see war coming. That’s where I stand.
I think you’re seeing in real time how I feel.
I think we should provide the Ukrainians all the logistics/weapons/training they can use without jeopardizing a single American soldier, sailor, airman or Marine.
I feel that we are seeing the first chapters of a war with Russia and possibly China.
The FACT that you have no interest in educating yourself about the nature of man, the nature and use of war, and the history of conflicts currently or in the past might be the reason you seem upset.
The reasons or causes of conflict between countries IS important. If you don’t like reading history you may have missed this from about the 5th century BC.
“the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must”.
I commend you for your position and agree whole-heartedly!
As for the rest of your admonition:
1. Your constant insistence that we should try to "understand" Putin's motives smacked of a sneaky rhetorical tactic to change the subject, waste time, and derail the discussion.
2. Your repeated reference to "worry" and "fear" and the "inability to KNOW" how Putin might react likewise smacked of an attempt to indulge in fear-mongering and thus covertly advocate isolationism.
3. Your use of personal invective, sarcasm, and insulting tone likewise contributed to the overall impression that you were not arguing in good faith, but rather were attempting to demean your conversational partners and disrupt the discourse.
I would heartily recommend that you try to alter your conversational tone and stick to the issue at hand (in this case, that issue was: Who is the "bad guy" in this conflict, and thus whom should we support?).
A more-respectful tone vis-à-vis other FReepers would go a lo-ong way to enhancing polite discourse.
Regards,
That is a completely false statement! And I am NOT "upset."
I have a GREAT interest in "educating" myself etc. I simply felt that you were attempting to undermine the debate - to DISTRACT, DIVERT, and ultimately DERAIL the discussion - by persistently demanding that we first try to "understand Putin" - as though he were a patient lying on a couch and undergoing psychoanalysis.
When one country attacks another, rocket-bombs cities, invades, marches on its capital city with a 40-mile-long column of tanks, and begins holding "referendums" on whether the defeated populace "wants to join the Motherland," a sly propagandist or sock-puppet will, of course, first attempt to REFRAME the question of guilt by insisting that we instead "try to understand" the aggressor.
What you were doing came straight out of Alinsky's playbook!
Instead of simply addressing the plain question of "What should we do / what side should we choose" in the conflict, you started railing about Sri Lanka, Serbia, etc. An obvious delaying tactic!
That you began calling another poster a "moron" and indulging in childish games ("You started it!") also does not speak for your maturity.
Your overall performance in this thread certainly does NOT cast you in a positive light.
You seem to have a genuine interest in History and/or desire to discuss historical antecedents or similarities - a noble motivation, under other circumstances.
But what you were doing was akin to standing in church on a hot summer day, when another parishioner suddenly keels over, and - instead of first declaring, "Is there a doctor in the house? This person needs attention!" - insisting that everyone first listen to you lecture on History. (I rarely indulge in personal attacks, but I have a strong feeling that you feel the need to "parade around" your knowledge of History, and that that is why you have constantly tried to move the spotlight away from "What needs to be done now?" to "Let's explore Putin's possible motives!" Might it actually be that you have a slight streak of vanity in this regard?)
(Actually, the analogy of the mugger I first mentioned above is more apt, since in the case of the Ukraine, there is also the added factor that there is an obvious "bad guy" in the scenario.)
You really created the impression that you were hoping that we might, in trying to "understand" Putin, actually find some sincere motivations on Putin's part that would diminish his guilt.
You also cast aspersions on Zelinskyy's character (saying that the CIA "installed" him, that he was a "homo," etc.) - as though that were at all pertinent to the discussion. I, personally, don't care whether or not Zelinskyy is a brain-dead zombie being remote-controlled from Langley. That has NO bearing on the issue at hand! Rather, Russia (our historic enemy) is guilty - once again - of an unprovoked attack, invasion, and land-grab, and must not be allowed to "win."
It is in America's interest that we and our allies do everything we can to ensure that Putin fails.
(That is, at least, the "first approximation" for immediately taking action and dealing with this emergency. Once that has been established, I would be delighted to discuss with you historical parallels and possible motives in a separate thread.)
I agree, however, that directly involving U.S. forces would be premature and an instance of "overkill."
I apologize if I have offended you - and it is always a dangerous thing to personally criticize another FReeper. I realize that I may thus appear rather condescending; it can't be helped in this instance. Your overall "showing" in this thread led me to strongly believe that you might be a Russian sock-puppet or such; I am now instead inclined to believe that you are simply too undisciplined in rhetoric and too quick to resort to childish tactics (like name-calling). I got a strong "vibe" of underlying hostility in many of your postings.
Please try to "clean up your act!" I think that you might have a lot to contribute to Free Republic!
Regards,