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To: kabar; All
Let's try to examine the roots of the Ukrainian conflict. It starts with those who for the last eight years have been talking about "separatists" or "independentists" from Donbass. This is a misnomer. The referendums conducted by the two self-proclaimed Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk in May 2014, were not referendums of "independence" (независимость), as some unscrupulous journalists have claimed, but referendums of "self-determination" or "autonomy" (самостоятельность). The qualifier "pro-Russian" suggests that Russia was a party to the conflict, which was not the case, and the term "Russian speakers" would have been more honest. Moreover, these referendums were conducted against the advice of Vladimir Putin.

This is completely false. The OSCE has tracked tens of thousands of people in combat fatigues coming and going from Russia into the Donbas since the "civil war" started, including armored convoys, tanks, heavy artillery, and military resupplies in order to give more ammo to the Russian soldiers who were constantly firing into Ukraine and killing Ukrainian soldiers.

Ukraine never fulfilled Minsk because the Russians were constantly fortifying the Donbass.

These forces have since then terrorized the Donbass, turning it into an open air gulag (as some Ukrainians trapped in the Donbass have described it), while killing and wounding Ukrainian soldiers daily.

I will add that Minsk was forced upon Ukraine by the usual suspects: the Germans and the French, both of whom, but especially the former, have appeased and surrendered to Russia's aggression continually since 2008 when Russia invaded and raped Georgia. The Germans in particular under Merkel have done everything possible to weaken Europe and make it dependent on Russia.

and despite rather crude allegations, there were no deliveries of weapons and military equipment from Russia.

The OSCE has FOOTAGE of Russian forces going back and forth from Russia into Ukraine, including tracking these forces to resupply depots. Here is an example:

https://euromaidanpress.com/2018/08/11/osce-drone-films-trucks-entering-donbas-from-russia-at-night/

This is hardly "crude." This individual is outright lying to the reader and misrepresenting the evidence that has been gathered over the past 8 years of the militarization of the Donbas by Russia.

The rebels were armed thanks to the defection of Russian-speaking Ukrainian units that went over to the rebel side

Thousands of modern Russian equipment, including tanks and heavy artillery, have been documented in Donbass. These were not from "Ukrainian defectors".

If that were true, Ukraine would have steamrolled over the Donbass years ago, slauthering all the Russian orcs and goblins using equipment that was now obsolete in comparison to the new and improved Ukrainian military.

The truth is Ukraine never went into Donbass because it was occupied by Russian forces.

In October 2015, Vasyl Hrytsak, director of the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU), confessed that only 56 Russian fighters had been observed in the Donbass.

The author takes it out of context. The SBU director is speaking of verified Russians. This is very different from the 30,000 people in military uniforms observed in 2015 crossing the border into Ukraine by the OSCE in that same year. Those we can "see" crossing. The 56 are those we have identified and registered as known members of the Russian military, which confirms, in any case, the presence of Russian forces in Donbass.

In October/November 2017, 70% of conscripts did not show up for the "Fall 2017" recall campaign. This is not counting suicides and desertions (often over to the autonomists), which reached up to 30 percent of the workforce in the ATO area. Young Ukrainians refused to go and fight in the Donbass and preferred emigration, which also explains, at least partially, the demographic deficit of the country.

I did not take a deep dive into this article to confirm all the data the author claims exists therein, except that the 70% quote is a fabrication. The article was published in April 2017, but the author here quotes it as having data from November 2017.

I got tired of reading this article and checking its sources after this point.

35 posted on 04/15/2022 5:43:25 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; All

Correction: I missed the second link he included in the paragraph which does contain the 70% quote. I was too hasty after seeing his misrepresentation from the previous paragraph with the other article.


40 posted on 04/15/2022 5:48:54 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
The truth is Ukraine never went into Donbass because it was occupied by Russian forces.

Why haven't the Minsk agreements been implemented? Zelensky was elected as the peace candidate. His own militia rebuffed him.

In 2019, Zelensky announced a partial withdrawal of forces from Donbass. His soldiers revolted. He went to Zolote to speak to them. Azov troops told him they wouldn't let him pull back. Here he is getting chewed out by a soldier. Later, nationalists threatened to kill him.

Video

Zelensky was mentioned in the Pandora Papers--Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky rode to power on pledges to clean up the Eastern European country, but the Pandora Papers reveal he and his close circle were the beneficiaries of a network of offshore companies, including some that owned expensive London property.

46 posted on 04/15/2022 6:02:21 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

It’s funny. As I was reading the original article I kept thinking, I’m being led down the garden path. The writer seems overanxious to point out the nobility and restraint of Putin. I react to that the way I do to comparing Zelensky to Churchill- they’re both utter nonsense.


81 posted on 04/16/2022 6:10:30 AM PDT by SE Mom
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