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To: oil_dude

You are throwing around buzz words and generalities like water. Civil war, yes. It’s hardly the first one that came along. And in civil wars, atrocities are committed on both sides. The “Bushwackers” destroyed the town of Lawrence, Kansas, killed the men, raped the women, pillaged and burnt. “Jayhawker” John Brown murdered numerous slaveowners, until he was hung for his crimes.

The idea that any faction of this local civil war is a Nazi makes no sense in the context of the facts on the ground. If you take your caps and bold them and italicize them, it still does not make the Azov Battalion either a part of the Ukraine Army or Nazis. They’re a militia.

Let’s examine the allegation that they’re Nazis. They do not believe in the supremacy of the Aryan race, because they are Slavic and not “Aryan,” and in fact the real Nazis when they marched through Ukraine believed that all Slavs, whether Russian or Ukrainian were untermenschem one step above Jews and negroes in their estimation, and consequently used them and then enslaved them. You cannot change that philosophy around to allege that they believe they are the master race relative to Russian speakers or Jews, because (1) their President is both Jewish and a native speaker of Russian, and (2) Russians and Ukes have been intermarrying and living side by side for centuries.

So let’s be objective instead of hysterical. What are the real elements of the eastern and western Ukrainian schism? Despite their similarities, both cultural and linguistic, Ukrainians have been striving to be an independent nation since 1804. First the Czars, then the Communists, have been doing all that they can to suppress these nationalistic yearnings. The very worst were the Communists, who deliberately starved four million Ukrainians to death, but the Czars also outlawed the teaching of their language in schools, the publication of books in Ukrainian, and public speeches in Ukrainian, measures which the Communists continued.

Next let’s look at the characteristics of Slavs, whether Ukrainian, Polish, Russian, or Czech. They have vociferous tempers, are descendants of the Vikings, and in warfare are prone towards barbarous acts. This held true with regards to the advancing Red Army in the latter days of WW II. This applied to the Kossack uprising of 1645. This applies to the Azov Battalion as well as the “DPR” (Separatist) forces. The French documentary that I’m watching in installments describes an incident in which a beheaded pregnant woman was found in a well in a small hamlet. Thus far, I have no indication who did this heinous act, because being beheaded she can no longer speak, whether in Russian or Ukrainian, let alone identify her murderers. Suffice it to say that it could be either.

So, yes, much of the destruction is years old. But it’s none of Putin’s business. Much of the destruction committed by DPR has been encouraged and facilitated by Putin, just as much of the Azov destruction was definitely and explicitly encouraged by Petro Poroshenko, Zelensky’s predecessor in office.

And no, Putin is not mad. That’s an old meme. Hitler did it, Idi Amin did it, Little Kim did it until Trump turned the meme on its head for him. Putin is mad like a fox, and he is exacerbating the local civil war (think “Bloody Kansas”) for his own purposes, just as he did in Georgia and Crimea. It’s what the Pan Arabists are doing in Israel with the ginned up “Palestinian” issue. It’s what Hitler did in the Sudetenland, and what BLM is doing in the US. It’s what Julius Caesar did with the Galls. “Divide and Conquer”. Stir up local animosities, use them as an excuse to intervene.

Nothing “mad” about it. It’s horribly cynical and wrong, but it works. Hitler used it to grab Czechoslovakia, then incited the Slovaks against the Czechs and of course the Joooos! Then he did it in Poland once he invaded (again with Jooos! as his scapegoat), and then in Ukraine, using Ukrainian resentment against both Russians and Jews to induce the Ukrainians to collaborate, with promises of independence (which they broke just as VI Lenin had done before), as well as resentment against the Jooos!, whom Stalin had employed to do all the dirty work of his mass starvation program in Ukraine.

So here we now are, with a Russian-speaking, Jewish President of Ukraine making a brave stand against a massive invading army on the one hand. And his people, who are, in characteristic Slavic fashion, utterly barbarous in the heat of battle, but here bravely defending their homes on the one hand, and on the other, the Azov Battalion and the DPR, who are attacking each other’s homes in the Dumbass (sic) section of Southeastern Ukraine, and trading atrocities as they go.

For my part, whoever wins can take the Azov Battalion, the DPR, and whoever else goes around beheading pregnant women or might, and throw them into the Black Sea. But first, Putin must fail in Ukraine, because that’s what’s needed to stave off WW III, to which we are perilously close thanks to the weakness and stupidity of Foe Brandon and the Dems.

As for the Ukraine itself, it has a long, bloody history, and its rich soil is soaked with the blood of my brethren. But starting in 2014, with the Maidan uprising and revolution, I notice some changes for the better. Sure, it degenerated into a corrupt kleptocracy, but it was a democratic corrupt kleptocracy, sort of like late-19th-century New York City. The election of Zelensky was another change for the better. He was elected as a reformer, and despite being both a Russo-phone and a Jew. I wouldn’t be surprised if, like many a reformer, he’s become corrupt, too.

JS Mills, in his essay Thoughts on Representative Democracy, says that a democracy must be taken as it is found at first, and eventually should evolve into something better. Ukraine is evolving into something better, just as the United States continues to evolve and improve in spite of the present individuals usurping power, perhaps in reaction to them. They will pass, just as Bogdan Chmelnicki and Stepan Banderas’ days are now over in the Ukraine, and better days are coming to us all.


27 posted on 04/13/2022 2:57:49 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (January 6, worst assault on democracy since the Reichstag Fire)
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To: Eleutheria5

Wow. Do you have a ping list?


28 posted on 04/13/2022 4:20:11 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: Eleutheria5

Well put, I don’t agree with every specific, but overall a good summary.


29 posted on 04/13/2022 4:30:51 PM PDT by drop 50 and fire for effect ("Work relentlessly, accomplish much, remain in the background, and be more than you seem.")
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