[MtnClimber]

Why would a country even need to join NATO? Oh yea, there is that. A world with Putin and CCP in it.

Some countries (and individuals) think like this:

“In the end, you shall lose everything you hold of value in this world, your wealth, your possessions, your freedoms, your friends, your family, your youth, even your life itself. But before you surrender them, make those who try to take them from you pay an extreme price for every little scrap they grasp for.” – Source not known

[ought-six]

““In the end, you shall lose everything you hold of value in this world, your wealth, your possessions, your freedoms, your friends, your family, your youth, even your life itself. But before you surrender them, make those who try to take them from you pay an extreme price for every little scrap they grasp for.” – Source not known.”

No; if you are killed defending them you have not surrendered them. Surrender is quitting, giving up.

You cannot be defeated by being killed in the defense of those you hold dear; you can only be defeated by surrendering, which takes a conscious decision to give up.