Posted on 04/09/2022 11:18:23 AM PDT by Mariner
I think countries on the international scale act rather amorally, according to whatever they think is in their best interests at that time. The means with which they can act will increase the more power they have to affect geopolitical affairs.
America is no exception to that calculus (this is not an endorsement of said behavior, but rather a recognition of how countries tend to behave).
“Scummy evil country”? Not at all.
But neither is America a “shining city on a hill”, and pretending that “old school America” is entirely without sin is historical nonsense.
“But neither is America a “shining city on a hill”, and pretending that “old school America” is entirely without sin is historical nonsense.”
You make the logical/critical thinking error that confuses good with perfect. I never said they were perfect.
“This is a very good running car”.
YOU: “No it’s not, a tail light is out.”
You’re still going on
***Uhh, you’re backing up an evil shiitebird like Mariner, I am aghast. Look to your right, look to your left, read the words on their hoodlum gang signs and figure out who it is you’re hanging out with; you are becoming indistinguishable from those evil @$$#0/es.
The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons is separate from the Budapest Memorandum. They are not one and the same.
One of the signatories to the treaty INVADED the other.
And again, what does the Memorandum call for? Going to the UN Security Council. And that's only *if* nuclear weapons were used against a non-nuclear state. Don't blame me for the Memo being toothless.
From my perspective we should send volunteer American forces in a Lend Lease program where we fight for American emBASEee territory in Ukraine. I call it the emBASEee strategee and the Lend Leasee strategee, the BBudapest AAgreement LLend LLease approach which would take BALLs.
Cute. Go ahead and see if your Congressman will bring it up for a vote. It's not like we have more pressing domestic problems.
Well, if America is guilty of it then Vlad could not-invade us and retake Alaska so we better be clear about what it means to “respect” current borders from that Agreement. If Vlad used nuclear weapons against Alaska, then the Memo wouldn't even apply, seeing as how America isn't a non-nuclear state. But that's irrelevant to the current topic, because Alaska *isn't Ukraine.*
I kinda like this approach, we could just say “Screw Jimmah Cartah” and retake the Panama Canal, retake all the territory we gained in our war with Mexico in 1898, etc.
Not even in the same league categorically, since the 1977 Panama Canal Treaties were both ratified by the US Senate (but I'm sure you knew that).
Yeah huh, and when all these islamofascist countries build their nukes just because they saw how the Ukes were treated when they gave up theirs, can we come back to appeasers like you to hold you accountable? Doubtful. Just like it’s doubtful that your position is at all tenable over this set of issues.
Given the (literally) gay ideology America as a country is exporting all over the world, we're not on any ground to morally lecture anyone. Maybe we should get our own house in order before getting involved in military conflicts on the other side of the world?
Well that PR will bite us in the ass if we don’t put a lid on the nuclear proliferation that it is engendering...Nuclear nonproliferation is STILL the name of the game.
That's funny, coming from Mr. "Give the Ukes back their Nukes."
*(what’s with all these ()parentheticals) They’re useless. Poor writing...(take a writing class)
Utter nitpicking and irrelevant; the use of parentheses is a normal part of grammar, given they included supplemental information for the corresponding sentence. Besides, this is just a political message board; given your 'colorful' language, you're in no position to demand pristine writing precision from anyone.
Not really long standing.
It's Eastern Europe. Putin's geopolitical calculus aside, there are LOTS of longstanding ethnic tensions between lots of people; all sorts of propaganda posters - old and new - involving Ukrainians and Russians only cement that underlying reality.
Our prez SIGNED that sovereignty agreement. When a prez signs a document, he represents us.
Not if he doesn't follow the proper procedure to get it ratified like our constitutional documents explicitly call for. Nor if the document being signed is as toothless as the Budapest Memo was.
There you go again, right alongside everyone else that’s using our own border as an excuse not to do the right thing.
And I highly disagree with the notion that getting militarily involved in Ukraine v. Russia is, in fact, the right thing to do. But why is it so absurd to point out dysfunctions in our own society that need dire attention as though it were a mere excuse and not a sign that our government's priorities are horribly skewed?
Here's a fact for you: President Trump fought for YEARS to get Congress to allot funding for the border wall, notwithstanding all of the political infighting that came with trying to increase defense focus on our porous southern border and the human costs that come with unchecked illegal immigration.
The same Congress thought nothing of allotting $14 billion for Ukraine in the $1.5 TRILLION spending package from just last month.
Take a writing class.
“They certainly have a knack for hyperbole.”
Well, Zelensky is a flaming homosexual prone to flamboyancy.
I answered the treaty stuff over in the asked & answered section dedicated to it.
https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/4044080/posts?page=143#143
Kevmo: Well, if America is guilty of it then Vlad could not-invade us and retake Alaska so we better be clear about what it means to “respect” current borders from that Agreement.
US7: If Vlad used nuclear weapons against Alaska,
***Ahem: Straw argument. I said INVADE. Going about the meaning of INVADE and “respect” sovereignty.
then the Memo wouldn’t even apply, seeing as how America isn’t a non-nuclear state.
***Illegitimate conclusion since your premise included a straw argument precept.
But that’s irrelevant to the current topic, because Alaska *isn’t Ukraine.*
***Alaska is territory once held by Russia, and vlad seems to think that’s fair game.
Kevmo: I kinda like this approach, we could just say “Screw Jimmah Cartah” and retake the Panama Canal, retake all the territory we gained in our war with Mexico in 1898, etc.
US7: Not even in the same league categorically, since the 1977 Panama Canal Treaties were both ratified by the US Senate (but I’m sure you knew that).
**The Nuke Nonproliferation Treaty was ratified as well. This is a signed accession to that TREATY (but I’m sure you’ll be taking that writing class).
Kevmo: Yeah huh, and when all these islamofascist countries build their nukes just because they saw how the Ukes were treated when they gave up theirs, can we come back to appeasers like you to hold you accountable? Doubtful. Just like it’s doubtful that your position is at all tenable over this set of issues.
US7: Given the (literally) gay ideology America as a country is exporting all over the world,
***Irrelevant. Side issue. Red Herring. Look! a Squirrel!
we’re not on any ground to morally lecture anyone. Maybe we should get our own house in order before
***Before issuing more squirrels to look at.
getting involved in military conflicts on the other side of the world?
***Nothing wrong with it as long as it’s in America’s interest. Hence, my emBASEee strategee.
Kevmo: Well that PR will bite us in the ass if we don’t put a lid on the nuclear proliferation that it is engendering...Nuclear nonproliferation is STILL the name of the game.
US7: That’s funny, coming from Mr. “Give the Ukes back their Nukes.”
***Yeah. Either we go in full-conventional or we end up pushing the Ukes into an existential build-your-own-nuke scenario. After all, that’s what we did when we were in an existential war.
Kevmo:*(what’s with all these ()parentheticals) They’re useless. Poor writing...(take a writing class)
US7: Utter nitpicking and irrelevant;
***Neither. Your writing is difficult to follow. Make your point. Back up your point. Avoid side points and red herrings. Red herrings are a logical fallacy. Side points are a waste of time. (Hence, you shouldn’t even be reading this, because it is intended as a demo to show that you are simply wasting others’ time.)
the use of parentheses is a normal part of grammar,
***Not the overuse of it, like you do.
given they included supplemental information for the corresponding sentence.
***It aint supplemental, it’s just sidepoints and red herrings.
Besides, this is just a political message board; given your ‘colorful’ language, you’re in no position to demand pristine writing precision from anyone.
***You don’t have any trouble understanding what I’m writing. And I don’t send ya down rabbit holes (commonly known as red herrings, side points, and parenthetical comments).
Kevmo: Not really long standing.
US7: It’s Eastern Europe. Putin’s geopolitical calculus aside,
***NO. You don’t get to throw a bunch of parenthetical asides and then pretend like Putin’s aggression and invasion is an aside. You’re being quite disingenuous here.
there are LOTS of longstanding ethnic tensions between lots of people;
***Ho hum, pablum. If you honestly think that was the real reason behind Pootypoot invading rather than just oil & gas, then add up all those LOTSA ethnic tensions and point to the biggest ones, you’ll find probably a dozen on the borders of Russia that are bigger, but no invasion. Because he didn’t invade over this excuse of ethnic tensions, he invaded over oil & gas.
all sorts of propaganda posters - old and new - involving Ukrainians and Russians only cement that underlying reality.
***Yawn. Ho hum. More blabbering on your side point.
Kevmo: Our prez SIGNED that sovereignty agreement. When a prez signs a document, he represents us.
US7: Not if he doesn’t follow the proper procedure
***He represents us even if he doesn’t follow the proper procedure. December 8, 1941 declaration of war had dozens of improper procedures attached to it.
to get it ratified like our constitutional documents explicitly call for.
***You’re just looking to weasel out of a nuke nonproliferation agreement. Shame on you.
Nor if the document being signed is as toothless as the Budapest Memo was.
***If it’s toothless sauce-for-the-goose to prevent a Russian invasion then it’s toothless sauce-for-the-gander to stop any and all NATO countries from “respecting” the sovereignty and borders of Ukraine.
***Kevmo: There you go again, right alongside everyone else that’s using our own border as an excuse not to do the right thing.
US7: And I highly
***Well then you just acknowledged it’s an excuse not to do the right thing.
disagree with the notion that getting militarily involved in Ukraine v. Russia is, in fact, the right thing to do.
***It sure as hell is. It keeps this thing conventional, it respects the signed-for borders. It prevents the Ukes from having the motivation of building their own nukes. It deflates the territorial Hitler-like bullying that this tyrant is engaging in. It stops an invasion.
But why is it so absurd to point out dysfunctions in our own society that need dire attention
***Because you guys are using it as a red herring. You have no new ideas for solving the border crisis. You have no way of getting libturds to sign on with you. But the libturds are signing on with helping the Ukes. So we should let them do the right thing.
as though it were a mere excuse
***IT IS a mere excuse.
and not a sign that our government’s priorities are horribly skewed?
***Of course they’re skewed. But it is no reason to stop it from doing the right thing.
Here’s a fact for you: President Trump fought for YEARS to get Congress to allot funding for the border wall,
***Red herring. Look! a squirrel! With TrumpBorderWall spraypainted on it.
notwithstanding all of the political infighting that came with trying to increase defense focus on our porous southern border and the human costs that come with unchecked illegal immigration.
***If it is notwithstanding then why do you keep bringing up the red herring? You got nuthin’ new for solving it, so focus on the issue at hand. Post illegal colonization stuff on illegal alien threads.
The same Congress thought nothing of allotting $14 billion for Ukraine in the $1.5 TRILLION spending package from just last month.
***It was the right thing to do. Ignoring our own border is the wrong thing to do. Why do you think we should not do the right thing in one area just to red-herring-focus on sumthin the democraps aint gonna budge on? Because you’re uysing it as a classic fallacy arguing technique, that’s why.
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