My sense is that the aftermath of the war will tell the truth. If Donbas and Crimea remain separate from Ukraine, then Russia won. If they are again in Ukraine, then Ukraine won.
Right now, I remember a document our government’s leading intel people said was true “The Trump Russia-gate Dossier”.
Doesn’t give me a lot of confidence in the establishment.
I would modify that a bit.
If Ukraine keeps the black sea coast, it won a bit.
They didn’t have Donbas and Crimea at the start, and Ukraine has no means to take them.
How long did it take you to sniff out the fraud in the Dossier? About five minutes?
Some frauds are so obvious you know its a fraud long before you can prove it. Some are a little harder to suss out.
I agree what you’re saying about Donbas and Crimea, its what I was saying about the map. The map lies least. I will say, I don’t think Russia will ever give up Crimea, ever. I think if Ukraine can just get back the territory they held Feb 23, thats as good a win as they are going to get. And after everything, that would be a crushing defeat for Russia, if they finished at status quo ante. They need that land bridge or it was all for nothing. And Ukraine needs it or again, for them, a crushing defeat on top of all the human losses.