Posted on 03/10/2022 6:14:43 PM PST by Meet the New Boss
According to ZN.UA, obtained from reliable diplomatic sources, Russia put forward 6 demands to Ukraine. The first five of them, as Putin sees it, should be enshrined in the Constitution of Ukraine.
1. Refusal to move to NATO. Neutral status of Ukraine. Russia, which attacked our country, is ready to become one of the guarantors.
2. Russian is the second state language. The abolition of all laws that infringe on it.
3. Recognition of Crimea by Ukraine as Russian.
4. Recognition by Ukraine of the independence of the DPR and LPR within the administrative boundaries of the regions (including the territories currently controlled by Ukraine).
5. "Denazification". Prohibition of the activities of ultra-nationalist, Nazi and neo-Nazi parties and public organizations, the abolition of existing laws on the glorification of Nazis and neo-Nazis.
6. "Demilitarization of Ukraine". A complete rejection of offensive weapons, under which, if desired, any type of weapons can be brought.
(Excerpt) Read more at zn.ua ...
Notice that Russia has dropped its demand that Ukraine not join the EU.
Previously, Russia said "no blocs" meaning both NATO and the EU.
Keeping Ukraine out of the EU of course was the main reason Putin initiated the turmoil and violence so many years ago through his man in Kyiv, Yanukyvich. Russia's aggression against Ukraine caused it to begin building up its defense forces and embrace NATO.
Also interesting is that "demilitarization" now appears to be limited to "offensive weapons" whatever that may mean.
The EU would be nuts to let Ukraine join. The majority of nations in the Western Hemisphere have a higher GDP per capita, and most are less corrupt. It would be like us having Haiti as the 51st state.
Actually it would be more like having another Poland in the EU.
Had Ukraine joined the EU at the same time as Poland, its development toward economic prosperity would have been similar.
Let me start by saying that I do not agree with what Russia is now doing in Ukraine. I think it is criminal and inhumane. However, I still remember the Cuban Missile crisis where we conducted a naval blockaid of Cuba because the Russians were planning to install missiles in Cuba. It was felt that those offensive weapons were too close to our borders. It brought the US and Russia to the brink of nuclear action. Luckily, diplomacy and cool heads prevailed.
It is my understanding that these Russian “conditions” have been modified somewhat to the advantage of Ukraine which means Russia will negotiate. It is my understanding also that Ukraine was agreeably willing to pursue these conditions with Russia which would have been a GOOD thing. What went wrong?
Perhaps. However Poland does not have nearly the same corruption as does Ukraine. That seems to be the largest determining factor in the success of a country. All the very poor countries have high corruption.
Their only hope of getting a handle on the corruption is to go into the EU.
The EU is a bureaucratic monster of smothering regulation and the Brits are well off to be rid of it.
However, Ukraine is in the opposite position and EU regulation and oversight would help root out corruption.
For Ukraine to come under Putin’s rule would be to come under the yoke of even greater corruption than it has now, through the Putin kleptocracy.
#6 is impossible, and also, Russia needs to add a list of awesome stuff that Russia is guaranteeing Ukraine.
And in cultures.
The leftists all claim poverty causes crime.
They have reversed the arrow of causality.
Crime causes poverty.
As despicable as the EU is, Ukraine should join it, and that should be signed sealed and delivered this month.
The EU is about to let Albania in (process is almost complete), so being a poor and corrupt basket case isn’t a bar. Makes one wonder about what the Turks are thinking, again, as they have wanted in forever, and are in a better state than Ukraine.
Not going into my personal life, but my kid’s mom was from Eastern Europe. The people there are very well educated and certainly polite people, but amongst themselves there are a lot of underhanded business dealings, tax evasion, fraud, etc.
Most of the companies there are Western, such as VW-Audi-Porche, Ford, Bosch, etc. or Asian, such as LG, Samsung, and Sony. These function normally.
The native industries often have to pay up front for orders because at times they will not pay for goods delivered and they have connections with the judicial system (which is the country’s biggest weakness). They can thus make payment very slow, or not at all.
You will not see products from their own country’s companies here, just ones made by aforementioned western and oriental companies.
So yes, culture has a lot to do with it.
Ok that is nuts. Adding a basket case like Albania will not help Europe at all. At this point the Turks should cut their own deals lest they be drawn into a pre-WWI type alliance.
That would be as if Haiti had a GDP per capita 3x of what it currently has and most of it had been part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the institutions building that entails.
This is a significant point which I think a lot of people who hear "Ukraine is such a poor country" and so on don't realize.
Ukraine has a higher literacy rate than the United States.
It has scores of universities, particularly concentrating in science, medicine, engineering and agricultural sciences. It attracts foreign students such as Indians to come there in significant numbers to study at its (relatively inexpensive) universities.
If they could just get out from under all the corruption, the ceiling for the country is high.
Here is a higher level geopolitically and economic overview
https://youtu.be/If61baWF4GE
“Keeping Ukraine out of the EU of course was the main reason Putin initiated the turmoil and violence so many years ago through his man in Kyiv, Yanukyvich.”
Actually, that is gaslighting. When the final offers were made, the EU demanded exclusivity in trade agreements, Russia did not. The EU demanded the Greek style austerity programs and insisted on a 40% increase in gas prices. They also were refusing full EU membership to oprevent visa free travel. Prime Minister, Mykola Azarov, said he had asked for 20 Billion Euros in loans and aid to offset the cost of the EU deal. The EU was willing to offer 610 million euros in loans, but Russia was willing to offer 15 billion US in loans. Russia also offered Ukraine cheaper gas prices. As a condition for the loans, the EU also required major changes to the regulations and laws in Ukraine. Russia did not.
And the Maidan protests were organized, funded and run by the US State department... Putin and the Uke government at the time had nothing to do with it.
It doesn’t matter whether you think they should take a particular deal, or whether I think they should take a particular deal.
It’s for their people to decide, and by all accounts the majority want to go to the EU.
They just don’t want to be subsumed in Putin’s Russia. I can’t blame them.
“Their only hope of getting a handle on the corruption is to go into the EU.”
Every parent knows that the best way to improve the trouble making kid on the block is to have your honor student hang out with them. Any other bright ideas?
They did decide back then. A street mob refused to wait for elections less than a year away. Then they could have signed the deal. In any case, the deals on the table were not as you claimed, and offer of EU membership vs Putin launching violence when they chose it.
That is just inaccurate. When the Uke government rejected the expensive not quite EU deal, the pro-EU types took to the streets.
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