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To: FLT-bird
What happened in elections years later does not matter. What does matter is that it passed the Northern dominated Congress with the necessary supermajority, was signed by one president and endorsed by another. It was offered to the original 7 seceding states and was rejected.

What happened years later resulted in the abolition of slavery. What happened with the Corwin Amendment amounted to nothing.

What did happen is that Lincoln orchestrated it from its writing to its passage through Congress. Even Lincoln hagiographers like the admitted plagairist Doris Kearns-Goodwin acknowledge this.

I'm not going to waste time exchanging theories of what motivated him with you, because the bottom line is it never became law, and President Lincoln later signed the 13th Amendment that banned slavery.

A Republican wrote it. The Republican president elect orchestrated it and lobbied for it. Most Republicans voted for it.

House, 62 Republicans voted against, 48 for.

Senate, 12 Republicans against, 8 for.

Lincoln sent it to the states according to law so they could decide whether or not to ratify it. None but a few did.

I know you're going to come back and say "If they were abolitionists then why did they vote for this?", but at that time they didn't see themselves as being able to abolish slavery, so they weren't giving up anything they didn't think the South already had. For many it was a last ditch attempt to prevent war, which is also how Buchanan saw it.

By the time all of this happened which never came close to including ratification, it was already too late.

By that date, most Northerners had come over to supporting abolition. That was not the case prior to the war and even a couple years into the war. It certainly was not why they chose to start the war.

The South thought so, which is why they seceded and fired on Federal property. Or so they said.

Abolitionists did not win in 1858 or in 1860. In fact, they did not even come close to winning either year.

In 1858, Kansas voters elected representatives that would abolish that original constitution that you tried to prove something with. In 1860, many who supported the Corwin Amendment including Buchanan lost their jobs. All facts, not would haves.

Oh I disagree. Both states adopted constitutions that excluded Black people.

Oregon never enforced theirs, and the voters in Kansas voted to abolish theirs.

Forced? There's practically zero evidence of any Blacks having been "forced" to serve in the Confederate army. Its tough to "force" anybody that you have to give guns to......

Who said anything about giving the slaves guns? They did the menial jobs the Confederacy saw them fit for.

Of course there were some blacks, among them slave owners themselves, who were willing to fight for the Confederacy.

Black Confederates: Truth and Legend

598 posted on 11/06/2021 8:32:31 AM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Will whoever keeps asking if this country can get any more insane please stop?)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
What happened years later resulted in the abolition of slavery. What happened with the Corwin Amendment amounted to nothing.

Because the original 7 seceding states rejected it.

I'm not going to waste time exchanging theories of what motivated him with you, because the bottom line is it never became law, and President Lincoln later signed the 13th Amendment that banned slavery.

Nobody need theorize what was motivating him. He said it quite clearly and orchestrated the writing and passage through Congress of a slavery forever constitutional amendment.

House, 62 Republicans voted against, 48 for. Senate, 12 Republicans against, 8 for.

A Republican wrote it and enough voted for it to give it a 2/3rds supermajority in each house of Congress.

Lincoln sent it to the states according to law so they could decide whether or not to ratify it. None but a few did.

Because the original 7 seceding states rejected it.

I know you're going to come back and say "If they were abolitionists then why did they vote for this?", but at that time they didn't see themselves as being able to abolish slavery, so they weren't giving up anything they didn't think the South already had. For many it was a last ditch attempt to prevent war, which is also how Buchanan saw it. By the time all of this happened which never came close to including ratification, it was already too late.

It wasn't just that they didn't see themselves as having the power to abolish slavery. It is that they had no desire to abolish slavery. They said so themselves many times.

The South thought so, which is why they seceded and fired on Federal property. Or so they said.

So they said.....when trying to essentially copy the "train of abuses" in the Declaration of Independence. They listed how the Northern states violated the Constitution and 3 of the 4 states that listed declarations of causes went on at length about their economic exploitation. To that they added that the North was governed by extreme radical fire breathing abolitionists which was clearly not true.

Things like rich Yankees bankrolling John Brown's murderous attack which was designed to cause a bloodbath AND then even after they openly admitted it, their states refusing to prosecute them really did make Southerners feel that the Northern states were radical and extreme. Imagine how we would feel today if a foreign country sheltered and refused to prosecute people who had bankrolled a terrorist attack on the US. We felt that was an act of war. We invaded other countries for that. Imagine how Southerners felt.

In 1858, Kansas voters elected representatives that would abolish that original constitution that you tried to prove something with. In 1860, many who supported the Corwin Amendment including Buchanan lost their jobs. All facts, not would haves.

LOL! This is one of the weakest rebuttals you've written. You know as well as I that abolitionists could not get elected in 1860. They couldn't even come close to getting elected.

Oregon never enforced theirs, and the voters in Kansas voted to abolish theirs.

Yet both states adopted constitutions that barred Black people from living there. Other Northern states passed laws to effectively ban Blacks from moving there and drive out the few they had.

Who said anything about giving the slaves guns? They did the menial jobs the Confederacy saw them fit for. Of course there were some blacks, among them slave owners themselves, who were willing to fight for the Confederacy.

Some served in support roles....what we would today consider to be logistics. Some did so for money because once the war started these were the best jobs to be had. Some did it because they felt a sense of patriotism for what was after all, their home. Some took up arms and fought. Some were quite literally family members of some of the White Confederate soldiers. Some were childhood playmates (remember segregation was a Northern and not yet a Southern thing). Human beings are complex and when there's a massive war, its going to draw in people who have a variety of motives for doing what they do.

599 posted on 11/06/2021 10:43:19 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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