Posted on 07/31/2021 8:54:38 AM PDT by karpov
Solar panel installations are surging in the U.S. and Europe as Western countries seek to cut their reliance on fossil fuels.
But the West faces a conundrum as it installs panels on small rooftops and in sprawling desert arrays: Most of them are produced with energy from carbon-dioxide-belching, coal-burning plants in China.
Concerns are mounting in the U.S. and Europe that the solar industry’s reliance on Chinese coal will create a big increase in emissions in the coming years as manufacturers rapidly scale up production of solar panels to meet demand. That would make the solar industry one of the world’s most prolific polluters, analysts say, undermining some of the emissions reductions achieved from widespread adoption.
For years, China’s low-cost, coal-fired electricity has given the country’s solar-panel manufacturers a competitive advantage, allowing them to dominate global markets.
Chinese factories supply more than three-quarters of the world’s polysilicon, an essential component in most solar panels, according to industry analyst Johannes Bernreuter. Polysilicon factories refine silicon metal using a process that consumes large amounts of electricity, making access to cheap power a cost advantage. Chinese authorities have built an array of coal-burning power plants in sparsely populated areas such as Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia to support polysilicon manufacturers and other energy-hungry industries.
Producing a solar panel in China creates around twice as much carbon dioxide as making it in Europe, said Fengqi You, professor of energy systems engineering at Cornell University. In some countries or regions that don’t rely heavily on fossil fuels for electricity generation, such as Norway and France, installing a high-carbon, Chinese-made solar panel might not reduce emissions at all, Mr. You said.
(Excerpt) Read more at wsj.com ...
Cause and effect.
A conundrum. Oh my!
“In some countries or regions that don’t rely heavily on fossil fuels for electricity generation, such as Norway and France, installing a high-carbon, Chinese-made solar panel might not reduce emissions at all, Mr. You said.”
So, generally then it reduces emission except for outliers like Norway.
This is in part why Trump wanted to make us more competitive on solar panels. This is also yet another area where over-dependence on China is a national security vulnerability. Did we really not learn from last year’s covid experience? The left doesn’t care, it was all orange man bad.
AOC and the other Greenies are hypocrites. They attack “white privilege,” colonialism, etc. while exploiting Chinese labor and hiding the true cost of their virtue signaling. It’s a similar mess with electric vehicles ultimately powered by coal and other fossil fuels (nuke is bad mmkay?) or eco-woke celebrities flying private aircraft but making themselves feel better buying carbon credits. That’s always been a cheat. And the right has long pointed out the rise of pollution from China as undoing whatever strides we are making through innovation and regulation.
LOL - there's no conundrum.
White liberal 'elites' feel if they don't see the coal filled skies of China that it doesn't count. Same as Larry David driving a Prius while buying expensive jewelry for his wife - he doesn't see the energy waste of South African diamond mines or the filth of gold mining.
For what it’s worth, my solar panels were made in Texas. To be honest, I don’t know how much of the core components came from Cheyna.
To be honest, I don’t know how much of the core components came from Cheyna.
—
All of it - polysilicon is a Chinese product shipped to the US and assembled with other components into solar panels.
We will be sweltering or shivering in our darkened homes and enduring large scale blackouts that leave our electric Bidenmobiles stranded, while the Chinese grow wealthy selling us solar cells and windmills made with CO2 belching coal plants. Sounds like green Utopia to me.
Bump
Smart folks in China.
Build hundreds of coal powered electric plants.
Use them to make stuff.
Enjoy prosperity.
I have read that one reason the Chinese are pushing electric cars is to conserve petroleum for their military. They will have lots of juice to power them from all these new utility installations.
The reality is you can’t make silicon (PV), concrete or steel (Wind) without coal.
One more reason to buy American when possible. Unfortunately the Chinese have a virtual monopoly on the production of many goods, so it is not always possible.
I’m seeing a trend in auto parts out of China and to India, Indonesia, and Vietnam. I think the Chinese are getting priced out.
I’ve seen the progression USA >> Mexico >> China
and now the next step
Solar, Wind and electric cars produce more Co2 than current sources of Coal for power plants, oil for cars, trucks and trains, or NG for heating and power production. It is like burning Ethanol in our cars, it lowers mileage, destroy engines faster, takes corn away from animals and humans for feed, plus it takes 1.4 gallons of fuel for each gallon of ethanol. Did I mention the vast quantities of water are used in the production of ethanol fuel?
The west has destroyed itself. It is all over for the best thing to happen to mankind in 1,000’s of years. I hate to say it, but nobody will fight. They might end up in prison, miss their favorite TV show, or die. It is preferable to live as a slave, than try to live free.
“you can’t make silicon (PV), concrete or steel (Wind) without coal.”
Not entirely accurate. In Texas natural gas electricity is cheaper than coal by a large margin even before you factor in the increased costs for scrubbers for coal plants to still exceed natural gas emissions in SOx NOx particulates not to mention gas plants emit ZERO Mercury or other heavy metals something coal plants do even with scrubbers as the metals are in vapor form not able to be scrubbed without analytical cleaning which will never be economical on four has volumes. Gas at $4 MMbtu blows coal out of the water in every economic metric this is the real reason Texas retired 95GW of dirty coal and replaced most of it with gas turbines coal is not able to meet EPA limits without hundreds of millions in scrubbers something gas plants don’t need at all. The proper way to use coal is to gasifiy it with oxygen in a pressurized reactor then analytical clean that fuel gas down to syngas levels of purity with zero SOx NOx particulates or heavy metals the reduced volume of gasses make that deep six sigma level cleaning possible then fire the same gas turbine combined cycle plants with the syngases that’s how coal should be used and to meet EPA limits it’s really the only way. Certainly if they make coal plants meet natural gas on all emissions for a level playing field then the ONLY way to meet those limits is with gasification and 6 sigma cleaning full stop.
Anything that you can reduce chemically with carbon or carbon monoxide can be reduced with the more electro negative hydrogen atom that’s just physics.
Limestone absolutely can be calcinated with H2 gas and heat, steel you read the science below for steel specifically. Silicon is electrorefined normally as is the second stage in steel making neither cares where the high amp low voltage DC current comes from. The largest aluminum refinery in the world is in Iceland it used to be in Rockwall Texas owned by the same company Alcoa the Texas plant burned lignite and was a MASSIVE polluter it’s pollution being traced with isotopic proof to.Mercury levels vastly exceeding EPA limits to lakes all over Central Texas. SMU did the studies with their mass spectrometry and geoscience PhDs I personally know three PhDs who worked on those studies. Alcoa moved the refinery to Iceland because they have huge geothermal energy access and hydropower two of the cheapest forms of bulk current on the planet. Alcoa built a lake feed by a glacier then drilled penstocks through a mountain to spin turbines for the electro refiners. Norman has hundreds of fjords with massive hydropower potential they would be an ideal location for electro refiners as would British Columbia and eastern Canada both places have large untapped hydropower potential.
https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4701/10/7/922/htm
MIT has the concrete chemistry electro chemistry routes as well. Cement can go the Hydrogen fired calcinator plus kiln route or go purely electrochemical.
https://www.pnas.org/content/117/23/12584
Silicon is already electrorefined but steps to make it even more efficient are always being done. Anywhere you have silica sand and geothermal or hydropower or now solar panels you can and should electrorefine more silicon interestingly silicon in molten form makes for a great storage medium for solar power this would make the Sahara the ideal place to make massive amounts of solar power and refine the nearly pure silica sands to more panels to spread solar power to the rest of the world.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S100363261161577X
Note that the storage temp of Silicon molten is also the temperature needed to calcinate limestone both work at 1400 C this would allow you to run a cement kiln 24/7 using solar thermal power alone as tanks of molten silicon can be used to run the plant at night.
For ref the amounts of solar power hitting the earth is thousands of times more than all of humanity needs in a year.
https://www.businessinsider.com/map-shows-solar-panels-to-power-the-earth-2015-9
Look at the map the little tiny square in the Sahara powers the entirety of the human race that’s all forms of energy use combined let that sink in look at the math it’s spot on accurate quaddrillions of BTUs and the Sahara is massive.
Solar is already the cheapest form of energy in human history yes more peer reviewed math.
There is no stopping solar it will be the dominate energy source going forward it is inevitable the sooner our species makes that transition the better.
https://www.solarpaces.org/mit-proposes-pv-to-discharge-energy-from-2400c-silicon-thermal-storage/
The real science and math behind the article
Copper is needed by any modern society and yes you can make it with solar heat , hydrogen and oxygen.
https://www.solarpaces.org/fastest-solar-hydrogen-is-for-the-copper-market/
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