You have been doing some work with the election steal commenting on the voting machine algorithm hypothesis. A mechanism is proposed and we look to see if the hypothesis is even feasible and if so then look to see if there is any evidence of something like that actually happening. If so, then we consider what to do about it. Please correct me but this is how I understand your approach.
So my question regards using this same approach with anti-vaccine allegations. I am accepting your public health argument as intuitive and unremarkable, so please understand the actual nature of my question. I have tried asking around about this without success. Since you seem to have good sense, I thought of trying my question on you. I confess I am not embroiled in any of the anti-vaccine debates here on our wonderful forum.
I have studied the blood clot issue with Vaxzevria since the two nurses in Austria died from a “bad batch” and I am satisfied that I know what happened. Blood clots AND low platelets?!? Well when you have few platelets, they get sticky. So now the task will be to verify if that is the case and if so then decide what to do about it. Here is the latest I have on that:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00940-0
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-ema-finds-possible-link-very-rare-cases-unusual-blood-clots-low-blood
Has any fatal mechanism been proposed for any other Covid-19 vaccines?
I understand the “all vaccines bad” argument.
I understand bagster’s “government bad” argument.
Someone gave me some links to anti-vaxxer websites, and I read all those, their idea being that vaccines are fatal because they work exactly as they are designed to do.
I understand the theory behind mRNA vaccines but I cannot imagine how they make the “lipid nanoparticel carrier.”
Here’s what I know about mRNA vaccines:
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243
Please don’t think I am asking you to read these links, and I do not ask you to take any position on the controversy.
Given for the sake of argument that the Moderna vaccine is killing people, how does it do that?
Thanks!
Nature did not interview anyone else with any other theories. They did not even take a holistic view of the HIT syndrome. H is for heparin and that's a binary input. HIT without heparin? That's impossible, ok maybe it's possible but it's "exceedingly rare" at least under these lamp posts.
The EMA is at least taking a more open-minded approach: One plausible explanation for the combination of blood clots and low blood platelets is an immune response, leading to a condition similar to one seen sometimes in patients treated with heparin (heparin induced thrombocytopenia, HIT). The PRAC has requested new studies and amendments to ongoing ones to provide more information and will take any further actions necessary.
The magic words are immune response. My friend had his second shot and came down with shingles. He's about 75 and never sick with flu or any other communicable disease. I told him that the fatality rate from COVID might be 1 in 100 or 1 in 500, but getting that shot lowered his likelihood of catching COVID by about 100X, depending on his day-to-day exposure. But I thought about it and it seems to me intuitively that if you overstimulate one part of the immune system, that might steal resources from some other part. As the EMA says: "As for the mechanism, it is thought that the vaccine may trigger an immune response leading to an atypical heparin-induced-thrombocytopenia like disorder. At this time, it is not possible to identify specific risk factors."
The mRNA article (your third link) is scary "Despite this success, there remain major hurdles to vaccine development against a variety of infectious pathogens, especially those better able to evade the adaptive immune response." Translation: current vaccines don't tinker with the immune system enough. And The development of more potent and versatile vaccine platforms is therefore urgently needed.
First, safety: as mRNA is a non-infectious, non-integrating platform, there is no potential risk of infection or insertional mutagenesis. Tinkering is safer than being accidentally infected. Is that true for COVID? "The inherent immunogenicity of the mRNA can be down-modulated to further increase the safety profile" Translation: mRNA already slips by the body's defenses but we can enhance that ability.
Crucially, it was discovered that the incorporation of naturally occurring chemically modified nucleosides, including but not limited to pseudouridine9, and 1-methylpseudouridine, prevents activation of TLR7, TLR8 and other innate immune sensors, thus reducing type I interferon signalling.
I have no idea what they are talking about, but it doesn't sound good to me. Thanks for the links. I think we will have to wait and gather more evidence.