Posted on 02/09/2021 6:31:34 AM PST by RC one
ROME (Reuters) - An Italian study supporting the case that the novel coronavirus was circulating outside China earlier than thought has sparked doubts among some Western scientists who called for further tests.
A paper published by the Italian Cancer Institute (INT) describes the presence of neutralizing antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in blood taken from healthy patients in Italy in October last year during a lung cancer screening trial.
All of the patients in the study were asymptomatic despite most being 55-65 years old and having been smokers. This would normally be a high-risk group for COVID-19, so it is puzzling why all patients were asymptomatic.”
Italy’s first COVID-19 patient was detected on Feb. 21 in a small town near Milan, in the northern region of Lombardy. But the Italian researchers’ findings show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in the cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had signs of having already encountered the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, most of them well before February.
A further SARS-CoV-2 antibodies test was carried out by the University of Siena for the same research paper, called “Unexpected detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in the pre-pandemic period in Italy”.
It showed that in six cases, the antibodies were able to kill SARS-CoV-2. Four of the cases dated back to October 2019, meaning the patients had become infected in September.
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
RC one wrote: “Why didn’t we see anything between September and February? Because it’s a cover up.”
Instead of a cover up, we weren’t aware of the Covid and we weren’t testing for covid. If you aren’t looking for something, you will have great difficulty to see it.
RC one wrote: “Why didn’t we see anything between September and February? Because it’s a cover up.”
One other thing. This year, flu is non-existent. Rather than speculate on coverups, why not consider this: flu and covid have near the same symptoms. We hardly ever, until this year, have tested for flu. We just diagnosed based upon the symptoms. IOW, what we diagnosed last year (2019) as the flu could very well have been covid.
We always test for the flu. I’m an ER nurse. I have swabbed thousands of people for the flu.
The lack of Quality Hosp's.
The most elderly Pop. in Europe.
Trifecta.,.,,
RC one wrote: “We always test for the flu. I’m an ER nurse. I have swabbed thousands of people for the flu.”
I won’t dispute your experience but I did read that testing for the flu wasn’t always performed in years past. You think it might vary by region, etc.,?
RC one wrote: “We always test for the flu. I’m an ER nurse. I have swabbed thousands of people for the flu.”
One other question. Have you seen much flu this year? My allergist told me yesterday that they had seen far less this year than normal. She used the term almost non-existant.
It’s pretty common, especially if they say their symptoms just started because then we can prescribe tamiflu. I’m in northern Ohio. Our current Covid test tests for Covid, Flu A, Flu B, and RSV at the same time. We aren’t getting many positive flu tests this year. I talked to a pharmacist who says he isn’t giving out much tamiflu at all. I don’t think this is a conspiracy. I just think the Covid countermeasures are doubly effective against Flu because Flu is less transmissible than Covid to begin with. All the handwashing, mask wearing, social distancing, self quarantining, mandatory flu vaccines, decreased gatherings, decreased traveling, etc has stopped flu dead inj its tracks.
No, hardly any but we are testing for it. Our latest Covid test tests for Covid, Flu A, Flu B, and RSV at the same time. We see a lot of positive Covid tests and very little in the way of positive flu tests. I saw one lady that tested negative for Covid that didn’t get tested for Flu a cuple of months ago and she almost certainly had the flu. The doctors are seeing so much Covid that they start making assumptions. he was convinced this lady had Covid so he didn’t bother swabbing her for flu but the test came back negative 48 hrs later and her symptoms had worsened. She had to have been flu IMO. I told her she should return to get tested for flu. I don’t know if she did.
When did we start testing for CV? Is it possible that we misdiagnosed CV as flu before we started extensive testing for CV? Like maybe early 2019? BTW, I don’t believe conspiracy theory. I’m much more into mistakes than I am conspiracies.
Thank you for your reply and the work that you do, very much in the “front line”.
I had something very mild in Spring 2020 and again in Fall 2020, same mild symptoms over 2-3 days.
The times corresponded to the two peaks here in the UK, which obviously may/may not be a coincidence.
Italian hospitals would have been aware of something with ir without testing. There’s no way its presence would have escaped detection for nearly 6 months, not when it infects 5,100 people and kills 560 people in one month. It would have been noticed
RC one wrote: “Italian hospitals would have been aware of something with ir without testing. There’s no way its presence would have escaped detection for nearly 6 months, not when it infects 5,100 people and kills 560 people in one month. It would have been noticed.”
Article in WSJ (behind paywall) states: “BEIJING—About 90 people were hospitalized with Covid-19-like symptoms in central China in the two months before the disease was first identified in Wuhan in late 2019, according to World Health Organization investigators...”
Also this: “In a recent study, Italian researchers found evidence of Covid-19 infection in a 4-year-old boy from the Milan area who was treated for respiratory symptoms and vomiting on Nov. 30, 2019. Researchers found RNA exactly matching part of the Covid-19 virus while retrospectively testing a respiratory specimen from the boy, along with specimens from other patients.”
IOW, this may have been circulating at a low level for months prior to what people have thought.
I guess that 4 year old Italian boy must have been wandering around in a horseshoe bat infested cave in China? Or were his parents feeding him a diet of imported raw bat and pangolin? and then there's the furin cleavage site of course. Where did that come from?
About 90 people were hospitalized with Covid-19-like symptoms in central China in the two months before the disease was first identified in Wuhan in late 2019,
A.) 2 months before the disease was first identified in Wuhan? That would be around September 17th. That's well before your 4 year old spelunker allegedly tested positive on November 30th.
B.) Pretty much any and every viral syndrome is Covid like and, for most people, Covid is pretty much like any other Viral syndrome, the loss of taste and smell being the exception. and for some people, the Covid viral syndrome is much worse than your typical viral syndrome of course.
Without specimens to test, it's anybody's guess what they had and, even if they have specimens to test, China is in CYA mode so any "evidence" they produce has to be viewed with a fair amount of skepticism. Admit nothing, deny everything, make counteraccusations. That's what's going on with China.
RC one wrote: “I guess that 4 year old Italian boy must have been wandering around in a ‘bat infested cave’...”
Come on now, you are well informed enough to know that Northern Italy has a very high population ratio of Chinese working in the garment industry with frequent arriving travel between China and Northern Italy so ‘bat infested caves’ in Northern Italy were not as necessary as you would like us to believe.
RC one wrote: “B.) Pretty much any and every viral syndrome is Covid like and, for most people, Covid is pretty much like any other Viral syndrome,...”
Which is exactly my point. How many covid cases were misdiagnosed as flu prior to our becoming aware of covid in the early part of last year?
RC one wrote: “China is in CYA mode so any “evidence” they produce has to be viewed with a fair amount of skepticism. Admit nothing, deny everything, make counteraccusations. That’s what’s going on with China.”
How does that differ from your attempts to deny any possible early spread of the virus prior to January? You sound just like the Chinese. BTW, if you’d read the report, access to blood samples for further testing is one of the few complaints made by CDC.
so then it still originated in China. We aren't really arguing about when it started, we're arguing about where it started.
. How many covid cases were misdiagnosed as flu prior to our becoming aware of covid in the early part of last year?
how about none? Our ICUs weren't full of people in ARDS prior to the "official" start date. And we swab people for the flu that look like flu. They would have been tested.
How does that differ from your attempts to deny any possible early spread of the virus prior to January? You
this is how dialectic works- two opposing views fighting one another and, in the end, the truth is revealed. I think the truth is pretty evident here.
RC one wrote:
“so then it still originated in China. We aren’t really arguing about when it started, we’re arguing about where it started.”
I’ve never denied that it started in China, my point is that it might have started months prior to Jan 2020.
“how about none? Our ICUs weren’t full of people in ARDS prior to the “official” start date. And we swab people for the flu that look like flu. They would have been tested.
The issue isn’t when it started in the US but when it started elsewhere. How much testing, when testing, in China and in Italy?
“this is how dialectic works- two opposing views fighting one another and, in the end, the truth is revealed. I think the truth is pretty evident here.”
Interesting that one would make a comparison to the dialectic on a conservative website. Truth as defined by who?
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