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Italian study suggesting COVID predates China outbreak sparks scepticism
Reuters ^ | NOVEMBER 18, 2020 | Giselda Vagnoni, Emilio Parodi

Posted on 02/09/2021 6:31:34 AM PST by RC one

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To: AnglePark

and I have seen numerous married couples admitted at the same time for Covid. I have seen countless examples of it infecting households. We are talking about the statistical probability of 111 high risk people being asymptomatic and then not giving it to anyone else. This is some BS.


21 posted on 02/09/2021 6:55:59 AM PST by RC one (When a bunch of commies start telling you that you don't need an AR15, you really need an AR15)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

Good for them???

For playing CCP-CYA?

🙃


22 posted on 02/09/2021 6:58:14 AM PST by Jane Long (America, Bless God....blessed be the Nation 🙏🏻🇺🇸)
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To: Zhang Fei

[Italy has a large Chinese population. That is why they were hit so hard early.]


I doubt that’s the vector. Workers in the garment trade are probably illegal aliens trafficked there at great expense (tens of thousands of dollars each). These workers don’t travel to China and back to Italy, because the Italy leg costs just as much the second time around.

What’s more likely is Italian management and legal Chinese liaisons who travel back and forth to obtain materials (cloth, buttons, sewing machine parts, et al) required for making the final product. Then there’s the huge contingent of Chinese tourists who show up in Italy. In 2018 alone, 3.2m Chinese headed to Italy to take in the sights.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/901197/number-of-arrivals-from-china-in-tourist-accommodations-in-italy/


23 posted on 02/09/2021 7:05:10 AM PST by Zhang Fei (My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
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To: RC one

Oh, for Pete’s sake. Milan and Northern Italy was a hotbed of Chinese immigration....3 round trip flights a week from Milan to Wuhan. Most young people had left for better lives...older people left. October seems about right.

Nothing new here.


24 posted on 02/09/2021 7:20:38 AM PST by plangent
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To: RC one

I think the article is saying the study participants were asymptomatic at the time of the study. These 111 people with SarsCov2 antibodies would have developed the antibodies earlier in 2019 while fighting the virus, and I would guess a lot of them were symptomatic at that time.


25 posted on 02/09/2021 7:22:11 AM PST by agatheringstorm
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To: joshua c

[Italy has a large Chinese population. That is why they were hit so hard early.]


I doubt that’s the vector. Workers in the garment trade are probably illegal aliens trafficked there at great expense (tens of thousands of dollars each). These workers don’t travel to China and back to Italy, because the Italy leg costs just as much the second time around.

What’s more likely is Italian management and legal Chinese liaisons who travel back and forth to obtain materials (cloth, buttons, sewing machine parts, et al) required for making the final product. Then there’s the huge contingent of Chinese tourists who show up in Italy. In 2018 alone, 3.2m Chinese headed to Italy to take in the sights.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/901197/number-of-arrivals-from-china-in-tourist-accommodations-in-italy/


26 posted on 02/09/2021 7:28:03 AM PST by Zhang Fei (My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
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To: EEGator

It’s to die for...

~~~

You forgot the Modena balsamic reduction. That’s essential. Or... is it Moderna?


27 posted on 02/09/2021 7:32:06 AM PST by z3n
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To: z3n

I think there’s about 6 “sauces” now.
Some are best if put on twice...


28 posted on 02/09/2021 7:34:04 AM PST by EEGator
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To: RC one
There is a very large Chinese community in Italy. They travel between China and Italy often on business. It's not unreasonable to expect that the virus came in with some of that business community travel.
29 posted on 02/09/2021 8:10:22 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: RC one

I wouldn’t be surprised if it hasn’t been around in some form since fall/late 2019 but then in early 2020 mutated someplace maybe like near a fish-market.

I know several families who in 2020 one member sickened and was found positive, but the rest of their families then either tested positive/asymptomatic or tested negative.

I also know many folks incl yours truely who experienced unusual mild flu/covid like symptoms sometime between fall 2019-summer 2020 who were never tested at the time.


30 posted on 02/09/2021 8:14:52 AM PST by Mr Radical (In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act)
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To: agatheringstorm

It isn’t really saying that that is or isn’t the case (read the final paragraph). It raises more questions than it has answered but, of course ChiCom propaganda has latched onto this as irrefutable proof that this virus didn’t originate in the Wuhan virology lab. They have their agents all over the internet infusing this story into their narrative. There was at least one here on FR even a few weeks ago. It was a brand new poster who was obviously Chinese that was subtly introducing this narrative to us all. I have seen similar agents on Twitter of course. I can probably find its post.


31 posted on 02/09/2021 8:17:22 AM PST by RC one (When a bunch of commies start telling you that you don't need an AR15, you really need an AR15)
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To: Mr Radical

Lots of people think they may have had it earlier than the official date but I have yet to see antibody testing that confirms it. I’m an ER nurse and all the nurses including me had something around October-November but there has been no antibody testing to confirm it and some of those same people went on to get Covid. And the fact remains, there isn’t going to be a big lapse in time between the actual moment this virus “hits the beach” and the time in which it has moved into the interior as an epidemic/pandemic. We have seen how transmissible and contagious it is. 111 people aren’t going to be walking around with it, not showing any signs/symptoms of illness and then, miraculously, not transmit it to a whole lot of other people. This is a coverup. The Chinese have even infiltrated FR to spread this narrative. I have the post in my history.


32 posted on 02/09/2021 8:26:00 AM PST by RC one (When a bunch of commies start telling you that you don't need an AR15, you really need an AR15)
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To: Myrddin

[There is a very large Chinese community in Italy. They travel between China and Italy often on business. It’s not unreasonable to expect that the virus came in with some of that business community travel. ]


I expect it was Chinese tourists. 3.2m in 2018 alone.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/901197/number-of-arrivals-from-china-in-tourist-accommodations-in-italy/

Line workers in the garment trade are probably illegal aliens trafficked there at great expense (tens of thousands of dollars each). These workers don’t travel to China and back to Italy, because the Italy leg costs just as much the second time around.

In theory, Italian management and legal resident Chinese liaisons who travel back and forth to obtain materials (cloth, buttons, sewing machine parts, et al) required for making the final product might be a factor. However, you gotta figure the number might be in the thousands per year, a rounding error compared to the millions of Chinese tourists checking off items on their itineraries.


33 posted on 02/09/2021 8:31:48 AM PST by Zhang Fei (My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
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To: RC one

RC one wrote: “These 111 people would have infected hundreds of people and the outbreak would have started within a month-not 6 months later. This does not pass the smell test.”

It only fails the ‘smell test’ if one assumes that the virus can be spread by the asymptomatic.

It’s very possible that the idea of asymptomatic spread was started by those who ‘in an abundance of caution’ didn’t know if it was possible but wanted to be as safe as possible.


34 posted on 02/09/2021 8:41:18 AM PST by DugwayDuke (Most prefer experts who only say things they agree with.)
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To: DugwayDuke
59% of COVID Cases Stem from Asymptomatic Spread


35 posted on 02/09/2021 8:45:02 AM PST by RC one (When a bunch of commies start telling you that you don't need an AR15, you really need an AR15)
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Considering the veterinary world has been battling strains of COVID in the farm animals for at least 100 years.


36 posted on 02/09/2021 8:53:07 AM PST by USCG SimTech
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To: Zhang Fei
There's no way 111 high risk people are going to get Covid and none of them are going to have symptoms.

And, if they did, there's no way they aren't going to transmit it to hundreds, if not thousands, of other people.

And that being the case, there is NO WAY that 111 asymptomatic carriers had Covid in September and the Italian epidemic didn't begin until February 21st.

After the first case of Covid on February 21st, it only took 1 month for Italy to have over 5,000 cases and 560 deaths. How would they have 111 cases in September and then not have any cases or deaths for another 5-6 months? It's impossible.

This is a ChiCom coverup.

37 posted on 02/09/2021 8:56:17 AM PST by RC one (When a bunch of commies start telling you that you don't need an AR15, you really need an AR15)
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To: RC one

[This is a ChiCom coverup. ]


I’d agree heartily.


38 posted on 02/09/2021 9:15:28 AM PST by Zhang Fei (My dad had a Delta 88. That was a car. It was like driving your living room.)
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To: RC one

one wrote: “59% of COVID Cases Stem from Asymptomatic Spread”

A computer simulation proves very little. You can make a simulation say anything depending upon the inputs.

“A mass screening programme of more than 10 million residents of Wuhan, China, performed after SARS-CoV-2 was brought under control, has identified 300 asymptomatic cases of covid-19, none of which was infectious.”

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4695


39 posted on 02/09/2021 10:58:48 AM PST by DugwayDuke (Most prefer experts who only say things they agree with.)
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To: DugwayDuke

It remains highly unlikely that 111 high risk individuals would develop antibodies and no symptoms. It is equally improbable that in the same test group, there are no symptomatic individuals reported. That seems “a little too convenient. And finally, it is highly improbable that you would have this large group of infected people in September and not have any signs of the epidemic until Feb. 21 when you consider how quickly it escalated between Feb. 21 and March 24. Covid had spread to 5,100 people and killed 560 people in that first month. Why didn’t we see anything between September and February? Because it’s a cover up.


40 posted on 02/09/2021 1:07:14 PM PST by RC one (When a bunch of commies start telling you that you don't need an AR15, you really need an AR15)
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