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To: 2aProtectsTheRest

I understand that it didn’t mention the vaccine specifically but did discuss proteins in the virus and what human protein could be impacted by autoimmunity.

So would autoimmunity of a protein in SARS-COV-2 cause the body to attack itself (aka autoimmune disorder) or cause the body to ignore that protein or cause a over response to future introduction of that protein? That’s the part I’m not sure I follow.

Is the Spike and S protein the same or different? I thought they were effectively the same but this article makes a distinction. I thought the mRNA vaccine was making the spike protein as its component to trigger the immune response.


78 posted on 01/12/2021 12:43:31 PM PST by wgmalabama (I will post less and thinking more from here on out. If this is Gods judgment, then so let it be. )
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To: wgmalabama
"So would autoimmunity of a protein in SARS-COV-2 cause the body to attack itself (aka autoimmune disorder) or cause the body to ignore that protein or cause a over response to future introduction of that protein? That’s the part I’m not sure I follow."

Great question. So what it comes down to is what the immune system triggers off of. What happens when you get an infection is that the "boots on the ground" soldiers (primarily macrophages and neutrophils) immediately respond and attack. If the infection is very minor, they'll win. In fact, they nearly always win. If they aren't winning, macrophages signal an SOS to dendritic cells, which are sort of like the brains of the immune system. Dendritic cells come take a sample of the invader back to the lymph nodes where a complicated process results in a custom designed response from T-cells and B-cells. The B-cells are what make the antibodies, which are essentially smart bombs targeting the invader.

So the problem is that if the dendritic cells take back samples of the invader that happen to closely match things the body needs, that custom designed response from the T-cells and B-cells is going to be attacking not only the invader, but also the body's own tissues that feature that sample. This is rare, but it can happen. Hopefully that makes sense?

When we talk about an overactive response (cytokine storm), that's basically a signalling error where the "boots on the ground" (or innate) part of the immune system releases tons of signals to create inflammation. These signals are normally there to help with the immune response, but if they're just flooded into the body nonstop, it can destroy healthy tissue in a hurry and lead to massive organ failure. Cytokine storms are often caused by respiratory illnesses (like Influenza, SARS2003, COVID-19, etc.), but can also be caused by other disease like ebola. In fact, often it's precisely that which kills people infected with ebola.

"Is the Spike and S protein the same or different? I thought they were effectively the same but this article makes a distinction. I thought the mRNA vaccine was making the spike protein as its component to trigger the immune response."

The S in S protein means spike. They're the same thing. The article is written poorly such that it moves back and forth between the two when convention would have you choose one, clarify with the other (e.g. "blah blah blah the spike (S) protein blah blah blah"), then stick with that throughout. No idea why this author chose to flip back and forth randomly.

You're correct about the mRNA vaccines. They encode the RNA for the spike (S) protein in the mRNA strand, which is then encapsulated in a lipid shell. That shell dissolved into cell membranes on contact, which releases the mRNA into the cytoplasm of the cell. The mRNA then attaches to a ribosome and the ribosome does what ribosomes do, which is put together the protein encoded in the mRNA. Out pops a bunch of SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins. The immune system sees this and assumes the cells are being hijacked by an invading pathogen. NK T-cells force cell suicide. Macrophages gobble up the "infected" cells and any loose spike proteins. Dendritic cells take the spike proteins back to the lymph nodes and kick off the process to customize T-cell and B-cell responses. You then get antibodies. After a few months, most of the B-cells have worked themselves to death. About 10% of them will then go dormant as Memory B-cells. If the same invader (as identified by the spike protein) is encountered again (e.g. if someone infected with SARS-CoV-2 coughs on you), those Memory B-cells wake up, multiply, and unleash a mass of antibodies to immediately overwhelm the invading SARS-CoV-2 virions. Thus, you don't get sick. You don't go to the hospital. You don't die.

81 posted on 01/12/2021 1:10:06 PM PST by 2aProtectsTheRest (The media is banging the fear drum enough. Don't help them do it.)
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To: wgmalabama

“Failure of SARS and MERS vaccines in animal trials involved pathogenesis consistent with an immunological priming that could involve autoimmunity in lung tissues due to previous exposure to the SARS and MERS spike protein. Exposure pathogenesis to SARS-CoV-2 in COVID-19 likely will lead to similar outcomes.”


92 posted on 01/12/2021 1:44:00 PM PST by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marilyn vos Savant)
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