Posted on 12/20/2020 8:11:43 AM PST by Kaslin
Anyone who thinks he knows how things will develop when the Electoral College votes are counted on January 6 is probably smoking something. In theory, since all the electors have been “certified,” there’s nothing the legislatures can do now. To quote Porgy and Bess, “It ain’t necessarily so.”
Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution says, “Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors…” The date is set by Congress in 3 USC 7. 3 USC 15 sets the January 6 date for counting the electoral votes. Neither date is in the Constitution. The only date in the Constitution is noon on January 20, which is when the term of the president ends.
The Supreme Court plainly stated in Bush v. Gore that the power of the legislatures is presidential elections is “plenary.” That means that the legislatures can do pretty much anything they want. The Florida legislature can, after the fact, declare that Florida’s EC votes for Donald Trump will be thrown out and votes will be cast for Joe Biden. Or vice versa in Georgia and so on. And they can do it at any time before the actual count in DC. That’s a pretty radical thought, but fully supported by the case law cited in Texas v. Pennsylvania. The state legislature is the final authority. If the voters in the state get mad, there’s another election coming for them to settle that score.
If the Georgia Legislature wants to change the certification of electors and their vote, they have to get together to vote before Congress meets on January 6. In Georgia, the governor ordinarily has to call them into a special session, and Governor Kemp has shown no inclination to do so. But the US Constitution, under which the state constitution operates, says otherwise.
“Wait!” you say. The US Constitution doesn’t have any language about how legislatures are called into session. That’s true, but completely irrelevant. Under Bush v. Gore, that “plenary” power of the legislature over electors means that they can call themselves into session, sua sponte. They don’t need the governor to do anything.
Put bluntly, every state legislature can do this. It doesn’t have to be just the contested six or seven. But those are the ones with a motivation to act. In Pennsylvania and Georgia, they may have a particularly strong incentive, since the governors and secretaries of state in both states were frankly hostile. In Georgia, it was an illegal consent decree that gutted safeguards for absentee voting. In Pennsylvania, it was a lawless suit that led to complete disregard for all standards established for the election.
But why would they bother? The electoral vote in each state has been certified. This brings us back to the 12th Amendment. “The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.” This sounds pretty simple. Open all the envelopes of electoral votes and count. But there’s a hitch here. In seven states (GA, AZ, WI, PA, MI, NV, NM) two slates of electors have sent certificates of their votes. Only one slate was certified by the Governor, but there will still be two envelopes. If both envelopes are opened and counted, 270 votes won’t be a majority. Joe Biden would have 306, and Donald Trump would have 316. That’s an impossible result, and there are confusing procedures on how to handle it, with the governor’s certification as the tie-breaker.
What if VP Pence decides to open only the Trump votes, declaring that the Biden votes were contrary to the will of the legislature? Again, the uproar would reverberate around the world. The VP has the authority, but martial law might be the short-term outcome.
What would happen if the legislatures met and voted? There are three major possibilities. First, they may choose to ratify the certified vote so that Biden wins. They could choose to certify the Trump electors so that Trump wins. The protests would again be impressive. Or they could choose a third route, simply voting to declare the election “in dispute.”
Declaring the election “in dispute” would countermand the certification of the Democrat slate made by the governor. Again, complaints would be deafening, but the legislature would be acting according to the facts in play. Several have held hearings where testimony of material malfeasance has been presented. So a contested election would be both the legal and factual truth. And the legislature would be saying that the state would present zero electoral votes to be counted because it’s not possible to determine which slate is correct.
The drama that follows on January 6 could follow several paths, almost all of them doomed to loud complaints. The simplest is count the “certified” votes and elect Joe Biden. But if some of the legislatures declare an election dispute, things get interesting.
If AZ, GA, MI, NV, PA, and WI all declare a dispute, the remaining vote is 232 to 222 in favor of Donald Trump. The president of the Senate, VP Pence, could then declare that Trump has won, since he has a majority of the actual votes. If he chooses to be less political, he could choose to say there is no winner, since no one has 270 votes. This would send the election to the House as a contingent election, where presumably the 27-23 Republican lead in states will re-elect Trump.
The cleanest answer comes from state legislatures acting to declare disputes. This would mean that VP Pence would not be an interested party making decisions that benefit himself like Thomas Jefferson did in 1800. But will the six state legislatures all vote? Not likely. This brings a different possibility into view.
I simply do not see VP Pence opening both sets of votes from contested states. That would lead to the House and the Senate separately voting on which set of electors to accept. While Republicans hold the majority in both houses, guaranteeing a Trump decision in each case is foolhardy. It’s possible, but very uncertain. But Pence has a different path available as president of the Senate, the ultimate authority in this situation.
Suppose that VP Pence chooses to declare the dispute on his own. He would be justified in doing so, since there is testimony to major malfeasance in all six states. He can declare that since election officials failed to follow state law, they did not conduct an election. If there is no election, then there are no electors. If Pennsylvania has dueling slates of electors, “certification” does not matter. Neither slate is legitimate. If a state has not submitted a valid slate of electors, then it has no votes to submit. VP Pence can then throw the certificates in the trash, leaving zero votes for Trump and zero for Biden from that state.
The potential scenarios would be enough for Alice to cry “Curiouser and curiouser!”
Then they came for the small business owners, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a small business owner.
Then they came for the Conservatives, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Conservative.
Then they came for the Republican politicians — and there was no one left to speak for them.
If you don’t mind. I would like to use this reply of yours, before and after whatever is going on in Georgia:
The Republican Party couldn’t be happier with the way the 2020 elections turned out.
They picked up gains in the House and in statehouses.
They’re going to benefit from redistricting in 2021, and look likely to take the House back altogether in the 2022 midterms. Barring a catastrophe in Georgia, they’ll likely keep the Senate.
They got rid of Trump! Make no mistake, you’ll have to look far and wide to find any elected Republican, who is truly sorry at how this turned out.
Now, they can sit around and do nothing except block Biden while drafting legislation they know he’ll veto. It’s a win/win the the GOP!
27 posted on 12/20/2020, 8:56:18 AM by Drew68
For the life of me, I don’t see what other people are looking at. This has been crystal clear for a long time now. Neither the Democrats or the CCP have any influence over this.
Pence will choose an unassailable, constitutional route:
The slate of electoral votes in seven (7) battleground states (GA/PA/AZ/NV/MI/WI/NM), were sent by their GOP-led majority legislature. Pence isn’t going to count the Gov/SoS-certified slate, when the state legislatures have spoken for the people.
The Democrats will then lodge a protest. Then the debate. Then the House votes by delegation. ONE vote per state.
GOP wins, Trump is reelected.
But....Dems go to SCOTUS with an emergency injunction.......and SCOTUS can do nothing because the Constitution was followed. State Legislatures decide the electoral votes. Not governors or SoS.
There is no other way. The only thing behind Door#2 and Door#3 is Civil War.
At that point, 30 million armed patriots will conclude this matter rather swiftly, with a lot of lampposts being decorated across the country.
I’m still praying for Divine Intervention.. It saved us November 2015.. it will save us January 2021.
Me too, me too, morning, noon, and night.
Excellent explanation.
I doubts about “the president of the Senate, VP Pence, could then declare that Trump has won, since he has a majority of the actual votes. If he chooses to be less political, he could choose to say there is no winner, since no one has 270 votes.”
The Electoral Votes are reduced by the state’s allocation for elections “in dispute”. And it raises the question, are UNLAWFUL elections, for failing to follow state election laws, subject to losing their representation in the Electoral College as well?
OK, but this hasn't happened yet. Right now, those GOP legislatures are still officially backing the Biden electors - though some after seeing Rudy's evidence have grumbled and raised questions.
We absolutely agree. It couldn’t be more obvious that pdjt won, and won big. Biden couldn’t get a single voter To show up to his “big” Arizona rally. Trump had 94 mile traffic jam. —- similar in PA, MI, WI, Nv and elsewhere. If USA winds up with senile Biden and the intelligible Harris, it will be the GOP-e’s fault.
GA/PA/AZ/NV already have. The MI GOP was locked out of their own building, so you know they will follow suit.
That is the ballgame. WI/NM are not even necessary, but they will send theirs anyway or get voted out.
Procedure in Senate
People in these states remember your legislature, remember them, let them know you will remember them and what they have done
I think millions feel like me, even if today they don’t know it, and that is that “IF” I see TOTAL GUTLESSNESS on the part of the Republicans January 6, and we, IN EFFECT, lose our country to the Marxists, I will never donate a penney or vote for a Republican again. Indeed, I will come to despising the Republicans worse than I do the Democrats!
WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMEN FREEPERS! I DID !!!
A SCENARIO
Mike Pence understands he will never be President. He could become an American hero by doing the right thing with the electoral votes, and resigning after Inauguration. That would show he was not acting out of personal interest.
Trump then names a new VP, who must be confirmed by both houses. Ford replaced Agnew with an overwhelming vote in each house. But what if the Dems do not approve the VP choice and keeps Nancy a heartbeat away.
If biden were elected, then once biden is elected, he becomes a liability to the Democrats:
* too moderate for the radical leftists? -> unending antifa riots, and/or eventual potential overthrow by trump advocates
* too senile for the moderate leftists? -> drifting towards international war and/or eventual potential overthrow by trump advocates.
The sooner the Democrats rid themselves of President Biden, the better for them.
In a Biden Presidency, Trump backers present a constant political threat. Therefore Trump backers need to be neutralized.
Contemplating the hypothetical unthinkable, Biden’s greatest value to the Democrats once inaugurated is that of a prospective martyr for the cause— unfortunately for biden.
An assassination of Biden by dissatisfied radical Democrat leftists could be pinned on Trump advocates by the ever compliant media.
This would allow a radical President Harris a pretext to declare war on Trump supporters.
Would radical leftists do this?
In the view of radical leftists, the ends justifies the means. The radical leftists will not be satisfied until Harris is President and trump advocates are in prison, re-educated, or dead.
While I echo your prayers, I doubt that there is enough testicular fortitude for the State Legislators to step in. They were already afforded that opportunity and did a “pass”.
perhaps pence can conditionally resign. if the house chooses to impeach him, he stays. if the house promises to vote in a trump approved surrogate, they approve the surrogate vp and pence resigns.
i could not imagie the house taking up such an offer, so it seems likely to me it would precipitate another house impeachment. hopefully ignored by the senate.
Hopefully they will all hang by the same bloody ropes, after all legalities of course.
A lot depends on how far down the political pile the Chinese money has spread. We keep seeing new revelations that it has gone deep, indeed.
If the fraud stands, I suspect that the perpetrators, participants, and their supporters will have trouble with angry folks from from our side, as well...
And China is expecting us to shoot at each other, not them. Look for teh CCP to snatch Taiwan and Hong Kong around January 10th or so...
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