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To: Dead Corpse
Ok... One more time for the slow...

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

Clear?

One time, for the pitifully slow, or willfully ignorant.

The right to keep and bear arms is not defined in the 2nd Amendment. It was a pre-existing common law right that was and is protected by the 2nd Amendment. It was not a right granted by the 2nd Amendment, but a right that existed in the colonies, was brought forth into the states upon independence, and recognized and protected by the Constitution.

U.S. Supreme Court, Ex Parte Grossman, 267 U.S. 86, 108-09 (1925)

The language of the Constitution cannot be interpreted safely except by reference to the common law and to British institutions as they were when the instrument was framed and adopted. The statesmen and lawyers of the Convention who submitted it to the ratification of the Conventions of the thirteen States, were born and brought up in the atmosphere of the common law, and thought and spoke in its vocabulary. They were familiar with other forms of government, recent and ancient, and indicated in their discussions earnest study and consideration of many of them, but when they came to put their conclusions into the form of fundamental law in a compact draft, they expressed them in terms of the common law, confident that they could be shortly and easily understood.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/blackstone_bk1ch1.asp

Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England

Book the First - Chapter the First: Of the Absolute Rights of Individuals (1765)

5. THE fifth and last auxiliary right of the subject, that I shall at present mention, is that of having arms for their defence, suitable to their condition and degree, and such as are allowed by law. Which is also declared by the same statute 1 W. & M. ft. 2. c. 2. and is indeed a public allowance, under due restrictions, of the natural right of resistance and self-preservation, when the sanctions of society and laws are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression.

It has never meant a right to carry any and all weapons for any purpose. It does not mean that today.

District of Columbia v Heller, S. Ct. 554 US 570 (2008)

Heller at 620:

We described the right protected by the Second Amendment as “ ‘bearing arms for a lawful purpose’ ”

Heller at 626:

Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152–153; Abbott 333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489–490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students’ Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884).

https://law.justia.com/codes/wisconsin/2013/chapter-948/section-948.60/

2013 Wisconsin Statutes & Annotations

948. Crimes against children.

948.60 Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18.

Universal Citation: WI Stat § 948.60 (2013 through Act 380)

948.60 Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18.

(1) In this section, "dangerous weapon" means any firearm, loaded or unloaded; any electric weapon, as defined in s. 941.295 (1c) (a); metallic knuckles or knuckles of any substance which could be put to the same use with the same or similar effect as metallic knuckles; a nunchaku or any similar weapon consisting of 2 sticks of wood, plastic or metal connected at one end by a length of rope, chain, wire or leather; a cestus or similar material weighted with metal or other substance and worn on the hand; a shuriken or any similar pointed star-like object intended to injure a person when thrown; or a manrikigusari or similar length of chain having weighted ends.

(2)

(a) Any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

[...]

939.48 Self-defense and defense of others.

(1) A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with his or her person by such other person. The actor may intentionally use only such force or threat thereof as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference. The actor may not intentionally use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself.

(1m)

(a) In this subsection:

1. “Dwelling" has the meaning given in s. 895.07 (1) (h).

2. “Place of business" means a business that the actor owns or operates. (ar) If an actor intentionally used force that was intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm, the court may not consider whether the actor had an opportunity to flee or retreat before he or she used force and shall presume that the actor reasonably believed that the force was necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself if the actor makes such a claim under sub. (1) and either of the following applies:

1. The person against whom the force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcibly entering the actor's dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business, the actor was present in the dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business, and the actor knew or reasonably believed that an unlawful and forcible entry was occurring.

2. The person against whom the force was used was in the actor's dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business after unlawfully and forcibly entering it, the actor was present in the dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business, and the actor knew or reasonably believed that the person had unlawfully and forcibly entered the dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business.

(b) The presumption described in par. (ar) does not apply if any of the following applies:

1. The actor was engaged in a criminal activity or was using his or her dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business to further a criminal activity at the time.

2. The person against whom the force was used was a public safety worker, as defined in s. 941.375 (1) (b), who entered or attempted to enter the actor's dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business in the performance of his or her official duties. This subdivision applies only if at least one of the following applies:

a. The public safety worker identified himself or herself to the actor before the force described in par. (ar) was used by the actor.

b. The actor knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter his or her dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business was a public safety worker.

(2) Provocation affects the privilege of self-defense as follows:

(a) A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack, except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. In such a case, the person engaging in the unlawful conduct is privileged to act in self-defense, but the person is not privileged to resort to the use of force intended or likely to cause death to the person's assailant unless the person reasonably believes he or she has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape from or otherwise avoid death or great bodily harm at the hands of his or her assailant.

He will be judged in a court of law in a jurisdiction where the police have been stood down and the rioters have been allowed to riot.

I would find for self-defense. However, I would not bet my life that a court in that jurisdiction would so find. They may find that the act was provoking and I cannot plead self-defense.

As for the Second Amendment, it does nothing in this case. If Rittenhouse could not lawfully possess the firearm in Wisconsin, then it is likely he unlawfully transported it across state lines, invoking Federal jurisdiction. It also means that Rittenhouse was committing a crime when the shooting occurred. His case goes from simple self-defense to more complicated.

Your misapprehension of the Second Amendment is of the right that is protected. What is protected is the common law right to keep and bear arms. That is the right that shall not be infringed. That is right to keep and bear arms that may be lawfully possessed.

540 posted on 08/27/2020 8:20:38 AM PDT by woodpusher
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To: woodpusher
Your misapprehension of the Second Amendment is of the right that is protected. What is protected is the common law right to keep and bear arms. That is the right that shall not be infringed. That is right to keep and bear arms that may be lawfully possessed.

Wrong. What is set up by the Second is that NO governmening body acting under the US Constitution has a just duty, power, or legal standing to infringe on the Individual Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Period. Or do we need to revisit the Pre-amble to BoR to see what the Founders actually intended when they wrote their "declaratory and restrictive" clauses?

And no... I don't give a tin sh*t what legal hand waving has sprung over over the decades to reduce this protection for our Right to NOTHING. I've heard it all before and it is all just "justification" for infringing that which bloody well never should have been infringed on to start with.

541 posted on 08/27/2020 11:42:26 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (A Psalm in napalm...)
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