The ConstitutionWe the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Notice there is no mention of the states in the constitution preamble. It is the People of the United States. The people of one country.
If that isn't proof enough for you. Here is the debate that ensued at the constitutional convention when a motion was passed to have the states (through their legislatures) ratify the constitution instead of the People (through state conventions) ratify the constitution.
Notes on the Constitutional Convention
Resol: 19. "referring the new Constitution to Assemblies to be chosen by the people for the express purpose of ratifying it" was next taken into consideration.
[...]
On the question on Mr. Elseworth's motion to refer the plan to the Legislatures of the States
N. H. no. Mas. no. Ct. ay. no. Pa. no. Del. ay. Md. ay. Va. no. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.
Notes on the constitutional convention July 23, 1787
As you can see from the notes there was much debate on whether the states or the people should ratify the constitution. In the end it was decided that the people would.
The link for the above is:
https://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(fr00227))
It is from Farrand's Records, Vol 2, starting at page 88, from the proceedings of July 23, 1787. It is from several months before the Committee on Style had created a preamble with the words We the people. The People ratified the Constitution AS STATES. The People referred to were the People organized and existing as political bodies, the States. The Constitution was approved when ratified by nine of the political commmunities, i.e. States. The new government was formed with approval of eleven political communities, i.e. States.
The Ellsworth plan to refer the Constitution to the STATE LEGISLATURES was defeated, and the plan to refer it to STATE CONVENTIONS representing the People of each State was approved. What was denied was referring the matter to STATE GOVERNMENT.
At no time in American history has there been a national, consolidated vote of all the People for any purpose. The sovereigns express their will as States, and only as States.
The final text of the preamble, with the change to We the people was made by the Committee on Style after the Convention. See Farrand's Records, Volume 2, pg. 590, Madison's annotated copy of the the Report of the Committee on Style, bearing the date Sept, 12, 1787
https://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(fr002175)):
The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 [Farrand's Records, Volume 2, p. 590]
Report of Committee of Style
Madison annotated his copy of the Report of Committee of Style with,
As Reported by Come. of revision, of Stile & arrangement. Sept. 12. consisting of Mr Johnson Mr Hamilton Mr. Morris, Mr. Madison & Mr King.
Farrand's Records at page 581 notes on September 11, 1787, "The report of the Committee on Stile & arrangement not being made & being waited for, the House adjourned.
Farrand's Records at page 582 notes on September 12, 1787, "The honorable Mr. Johnson from the Committee of revision informed the House that the Committee were prepared to report the Constitution as revised and arranged. The report was then delivered in at the Secretary's table—and having been once read throughout. Ordered that the Members be furnished with printed copies thereof."
In the Convention, the draft of the Constitution was transmitted to the Committee on Style (Mr Johnson, Mr Hamilton, Mr. Morris, Mr. Madison & Mr King) just before the convention delegates departed. The preamble did not origijnally contain the phrase We the People..
https://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(fr002167)):
The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 [Farrand's Records, Volume 2, pg. 565; proceedings of September 10, 1787] Proceedings of Convention Referred to the Committee of Style and Arrangement1
[Note 1: 1 Compiled by the editor from the proceedings of the Convention.]
We the People of the States of New-Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New-York, New-Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North-Carolina, South-Carolina, and Georgia, do ordain, declare and establish the following Constitution for the Government and our Posterity.ARTICLE I.
The stile of this Government shall be, "The United States of America."[...]
That is what was reported as a draft at the Convention to the Committee on Style.
This was changed by the Committee on Style to "We the People".... The Committee on Style had the authority to clean up the grammar and usage; they had no authority to change the meaning of anything. The intended meaning is clear that the Preamble was referring to the people of the states, but only the people of the states that ratified. In this sense, the people of the states, and the people of the United States, are synonomous terms. The members of the union are the states that ratified. The delegates to the Convention were deputed by States. Ratifications were made by States. When George Washington was inaugurated, the Constitution had been ratified by eleven states. Article 7: "The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States shall be sufficient for the establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the same."
https://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?hlaw:13:./temp/~ammem_jCMu::
The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 [Farrand's Records, Volume 2, at pg. 590, proceedings from September 12, 1787]
Report of Committee of Style
WE, the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, to establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.ARTICLE I.
Sect. 1. ALL legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.[...]
There is no right of the people to vote in national elections for President. Delegates to the Electoral College are selected as determined by State legislatures. The legislatures may choose directly or hold a popular vote.
Note also the original phrasing "declare and establish the following Constitution for our Government and our Posterity." The Constitution follows the Preamble. The Preamble is not part of the Constitution; it is an introductory paragraph, and the Constitution follows it. The Preamble has no force of law, and provides no legal rights or benefits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_Constitution
DraftingThe Preamble was placed in the Constitution during the last days of the Constitutional Convention by the Committee on Style, which wrote its final draft, with Gouverneur Morris leading the effort. It was not proposed or discussed on the floor of the convention beforehand. The initial wording of the preamble did not refer to the people of the United States, rather, it referred to people of the various states, which was the norm. In earlier documents, including the 1778 Treaty of Alliance with France, the Articles of Confederation, and the 1783 Treaty of Paris recognizing American independence, the word "people" was not used, and the phrase the United States was followed immediately by a listing of the states, from north to south. The change was made out of necessity, as the Constitution provided that whenever the popularly elected ratifying conventions of nine states gave their approval, it would go into effect for those nine, irrespective of whether any of the remaining states ratified.
- - - - - - - - - -
Bush v. Gore, 531 U.S. 98, 104 (2000)
The individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States unless and until the state legislature chooses a statewide election as the means to implement its power to appoint members of the Electoral College. U.S. Const., Art. II, §1. This is the source for the statement in McPherson v. Blacker, 146 U.S. 1 , 35 (1892), that the State legislature’s power to select the manner for appointing electors is plenary; it may, if it so chooses, select the electors itself, which indeed was the manner used by State legislatures in several States for many years after the Framing of our Constitution. Id., at 28—33. History has now favored the voter, and in each of the several States the citizens themselves vote for Presidential electors. When the state legislature vests the right to vote for President in its people, the right to vote as the legislature has prescribed is fundamental; and one source of its fundamental nature lies in the equal weight accorded to each vote and the equal dignity owed to each voter. The State, of course, after granting the franchise in the special context of Article II, can take back the power to appoint electors. See id., at 35 (“[T]here is no doubt of the right of the legislature to resume the power at any time, for it can neither be taken away nor abdicated”) (quoting S. Rep. No. 395, 43d Cong., 1st Sess.).
Neither women, nor men, have a right to vote except as provided by the state. The 19th Amendment did not give anyone the right to vote, rather it prohibited discrimination regarding voting based on sex. Where men are permitted to vote, women must also be permitted on an equal basis.
https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep197/usrep197011/usrep197011.pdf
Jacobsen v Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905)
MR. JUSTICE HARLAN, after making the foregoing statement, delivered the opinion of the court.We pass without extended discussion the suggestion that the particular section of the statute of Massachusetts now in question (§ 137, c. 75) is in derogation of rights secured by the Preamble of the Constitution of the United States. Although that Preamble indicates the general purposes for which the people ordained and established the Constitution, it has never been regarded as the source of any substantive power conferred on the Government of the United States or on any of its Departments. Such powers embrace only those expressly granted in the body of the Constitution and such as may be implied from those so granted. Although, therefore, one of the declared objects of the Constitution was to secure the blessings of liberty to all under the sovereign jurisdiction and authority of the United States, no power can be exerted to that end by the United States unless, apart from the Preamble, it be found in some express delegation of power or in some power to be properly implied therefrom. 1 Story's Const. § 462.
- - - - - - - - - -
https://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(fr003117))
The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 [Farrand's Records, Volume 3]CIII. James Madison to Thomas Jefferson.
Philada. Sepr. 6. 1787.
As the Convention will shortly rise I should feel little scruple in disclosing what will be public here, before it could reach you, were it practicable for me to guard by Cypher against an intermediate discovery. But I am deprived of this resource by the shortness of the interval between the receipt of your letter of June 20, and the date of this. This is the first day which has been free from Committee service, both before & after the hours of the House, and the last that is allowed me by the time advertised for the sailing of the packet.
The Convention consists now as it has generally done of Eleven States. There has been no intermission of its Sessions since a house was formed; except an interval of about ten days allowed a Committee appointed to detail the general propositions agreed on in the House. The term of its dissolution cannot be more than one or two weeks distant. A Governmt. will probably be submitted to the people of the States, consisting of a president, cloathed with Executive power; a Senate chosen by the Legislatures, and another House chosen by the people of the States, jointly possessing the legislative power; and a regular judiciary establishment. The mode of constituting the Executive is among the few points not yet finally settled. The Senate will consist of two members from each State, and appointed sexennially. The other, of members appointed biennially by the people of the States, in proportion to their number. The Legislative power will extend to taxation, trade, and sundry other general matters. The powers of Congress will be distributed, according to their nature, among the several departments. The States will be restricted from paper money and in a few other instances. These are the outlines. The extent of them may perhaps surprize you. I hazard an opinion nevertheless that the plan, should it be adopted, will neither effectually answer its national object, not prevent the local mischiefs which everywhere excite disgusts agst. the State Governments. The grounds of this opinion will be the subject of a future letter. ...
Nothing can exceed the universal anxiety for the event of the meeting here. Reports and conjectures abound concerning the nature of the plan which is to be proposed. The public however is certainly in the dark with regard to it. The Convention is equally in the dark as to the reception wch. may be given to it on its publication. All the prepossessions are on the right side, but it may well be expected that certain characters will wage war against any reform whatever. My own idea is that the public mind will now or in a very little time receive anything that promises stability to the public Councils & security to private rights, and that no regard ought to be had to local prejudices or temporary considerations. If the present moment be lost, it is hard to say what may be our fate. ...
Mr. Wythe has never returned to us. His lady whose illness carried him away, died some time after he got home.
https://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(fr003118)):
The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 [Farrand's Records, Volume 3]
CIV. Jonas Phillips to the President and Members of the Convention.
SiresWith leave and submission I address myself To those in whome there is wisdom understanding and knowledge. they are the honourable personages appointed and Made overseers of a part of the terrestrial globe of the Earth, Namely the 13 united states of america in Convention Assembled, the Lord preserve them amen--
[...] Your Most devoted obed Servant
Jonas PhillipsPhiladelphia 24th Ellul 5547 or Sepr 7th 1787
https://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(fr003124)):
The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 [Farrand's Records, Volume 3]
CX. George Washington: Diary.
[September] Monday--17th.Met in Convention when the Constitution received the unanimous assent of 11 States and Colo. Hamilton's from New York (the only delegate from thence in Convention) and was subscribed to by every Member present except Govr. Randolph and Colo. Mason from Virginia -- & Mr. Gerry from Massachusetts. The business being thus closed, the Members adjourned to the City Tavern, dined together and took a cordial leave of each other. -- after which I returned to my lodgings -- did some business with, and received the papers from the secretary of the Convention, and retired to meditate on the momentous wk. which had been executed, after not less than five, for a large part of the time six, and sometimes 7 hours sitting every day, sundays & the ten days adjournment to give a Commee. opportunity & time to arrange the business for more than four months.--
Alexander Hamilton had no authority to act on behalf of the state of New York as the rest of the delegation had walked out early. Rhode Island refused to send a delegation. Once the delegates decided to exceed their mandate to draft amendments to the Articles of Confederation, and instead draft a proposed Constitution for an different system of government, only eleven states participated at the Convention.
Your really good at throwing a lot of S*&% at a wall and hoping it sticks, but your still wrong.
I posted the actual notes from the constitutional convention showing the debate on whether the states(through their legislatures) would ratify the constitution, or whether the people (through conventions held in their state) would ratify the constitution. Yet you say its a distinction without a difference.
It was the late 1800s do you think it was practical to have a huge group of representatives meet in one location?
Here’s the letter sent to the states by Congress with the constitution for it’s approval.
“Resolved unanimously, That the said report with the resolutions and letter accompanying the same be transmitted to the several legislatures in order to be submitted to a convention of delegates chosen in each state by the people thereof in conformity to the resolves of the Convention made and provided in that case.”
Congress transmittal letter to the states for ratification of the constitution
It clearly says that it is to be submitted to a convention of delegates chosen by the people in convention for ratification in conformity with the method provided in the constitution. Notice it doesn’t say for the state or the people of the state but the people.
All the states did was set up the election for the delegates to the convention and then transmit the results of the convention to congress. They did not ratify the constitution.
And in fact just five short years after ratification of the constitution the Supreme Court affirmed that the people had established the constitution. The chief justice of the Supreme Court at this time was John Jay, a founding father.
“We the people of the United States, do ordain and establish this Constitution. Here we see the people acting as sovereigns of the whole country, and, in the language of sovereignty, establishing a Constitution by which it was their will that the State governments should be bound, and to which the State Constitutions should be made to conform. Every State Constitution is a compact made by and between the citizens of a State to govern themselves in a certain manner, and the Constitution of the United States is likewise a compact made by the people of the United States to govern themselves as to general objects in a certain manner. By this great compact however, many prerogatives were transferred to the national government, such as those of making war and peace, contracting alliances, coining money, etc. etc.” – Chisholm v. Georgia, 1793
The supreme court made an even more explicit statement on the nature of the constitution and the relationship of the states to it 1819. The chief justice at the time was John Marshall, another founding father.
“The powers of the general government, it has been said, are delegated by the states, who alone are truly sovereign; and must be exercised in subordination to the states, who alone posses supreme domination.
“It would be difficult to sustain this proposition. The convention, which framed the constitution, was indeed elected by the state legislatures. But the instrument, when it came from their hands, was a mere proposal, without obligation, or pretensions to it. It was then reported to the then existing congress of the United States, with a request, that it might be submitted to a convention of delegates, chosen in each state by the people thereof, under the recommendation of its legislature, for their assent and ratification. This mode of proceeding was adopted; and by the convention, by congress, and by the state legislatures, the instrument was submitted to the people. They acted upon it in the only manner, in which they can act safely, effectively, and wisely, on such a subject, by assembling in convention. It is true, they assembled in their several states—and where else should they have assembled? No political dreamer was ever wild enough to think of breaking down the lines, which separate the states, and of compounding the American people into one common mass. Of consequence, when they act, they act in their states. But the measures they adopt do not, on that account, cease to be measures of the people themselves, or become the measure of state governments.
“From these conventions the constitution derives its whole authority. The government proceeds directly from the people; is ‘ordained and established’ in the name of the people; and is declared to be ordained ‘in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, and secure the blessings of liberty to them selves and to their posterity.’ The assent of the states, in their sovereign capacity, is implied in calling a convention, and thus submitting that instrument to the people. But the people were at perfect liberty to accept or reject it; and their act was final. It required not the affirmance, and could not be negatived, by the state governments. The constitution, when thus adopted, was of complete obligation, and bound the state sovereignties.”
McCullough v Maryland
He explicitly addresses why the people acted in their states instead of coming together in one mass.
“It is true, they assembled in their several states—and where else should they have assembled? No political dreamer was ever wild enough to think of breaking down the lines, which separate the states, and of compounding the American people into one common mass.”
Hell, even the enemies of constitutional ratification understood what it did.
“In short, consolidation prevades the whole constitution. It begins with an annunciation that such was the intention. The main pillars of the fabric correspond with it, and the concluding paragraph is a confirmation of it. The preamble begins with the words, “We the people of the United States,” which is the style of a compact between individuals entering into a state of society, and not that of a confederation of states...”
From the minority report of the Pennsylvania ratification assembly (December 1787):
No matter how much you distort, obfuscate, or misrepresent the history there is no denying the fact that the constitution was established by the people, all the people of the United States, and can only be unmade by all of them.
You certainly don’t seem to care what Supreme Court Chief Justices who were founding fathers said about who established the constitution so you probably won’t care what the father of the constitution said about who established it but here it is in his own words.
“The government of the United States relies on its own means for the execution of its powers, as the state governments do for the execution of theirs; both governments having, a common origin, or sovereign, the people; the state governments , the people of each state, the national government, the people of every state; and being amenable to the power, which created it. It is by executing its functions as a government, thus originating and thus acting, that the constitution of the United States holds the states together, and performs the office of a league. It is owing to the nature of its powers , and the high source, from whence they are derived, the people, that it performs that office better than a confederation, or any league, whichever existed, being a compact, which state governments did not form, to which they are not parties, and which executes its own powers independently of them.”
Source: Mr. Madison’s letter, North American Review, Oct. 1830.