Replies

the greatest irony in the case forever
okay so I bragged about judge Sullivan
for years everywhere across the country
bragged about judge Sullivan for
requiring the government to produce
Brady evidence in the Ted Stevens case
but what I didn't expect was for judge
Sullivan to deny every single Brady
request a document we asked for every
single one in a 92 page decision that
was just raging I was flabbergasted
in the court case against Lieutenant
General Michael Flynn the US Court of
Appeals for the DC Circuit has ordered
judge Emmett Sullivan to grant the do
Jay's request to dismiss but what will
happen next in the eyes of general
Flynn's attorney Sidney Powell what are
the implications of judge Sullivan
keeping the case open
is there more exculpatory evidence to
come in the Flynn case and what are some
possible steps to take to strengthen the
US Department of Justice as an
institution in this episode we sit down
with Sidney Powell counsel for General
Michael Flynn she is also the author of
license to lie and conviction machine
this is American thought-leaders and I'm
Janiak Alec
[Music]
Sidney Powell such a pleasure to have
you back on American thought-leaders oh
thank you for having me it's always a
pleasure to talk with you well you know
you've been very busy that's the
understatement of the century
and I'm gonna ask you in a little bit
you know kind of what it's taken to work
on this on general Flynn's case but
let's talk about where we are today the
DC Circuit Court of Appeals has
basically said has ordered judge
Sullivan to close the case and I think
he had 24 hours to do so and he didn't
do it so what's going on where are we at
here well they don't really put a time
limit on the order but I can't say in my
decades of practice and we're not going
to number those that I've ever seen a
judge not do what he was told to do by
what's called a writ of mandamus or
extraordinary writ an order directly
from the Circuit Court of Appeals to do
something they always do it within 24 to
48 hours I just haven't seen that happen
with the possible exception of one case
way back when I had to get a writ of
mandamus issued against a federal
district judge twice in the same case
now we are certainly hoping that doesn't
have to happen here and that the order
will be signed shortly because he's not
party to the case that doesn't mean the
full court can't review the case on its
own but it would be unprecedented to do
so in these circumstances there's so
many unprecedented things related I keep
hearing you know something new happens
and you know even months ago and I hear
unprecedented how about you give us a
bit of perspective they don't give
outline kind of this journey from the
time that you came on as general Flynn's
attorney well I had been concerned about
this case from the beginning from the
very beginning I was writing about it as
writing articles for the Daily Caller
and and other publications about what I
was seeing in it and it all kind of
followed on from my book license to like
supposing corruption in the department
justice and I didn't touch the issues
with the Muller task force Special
Counsel operation until I saw that they
brought Andrew Weissman in and I knew he
was actually going to head it because he
is what I call the lead villain in
license to lie he is widely known for
making up crimes hiding evidence that
shows people are innocent and just
railroading people with the enormous
pressure that the federal government can
bring to bear against an individual when
they're indicted so I became immediately
concerned then and then the more I saw
come out about the Flynn case and how it
was being handled the more concerned I
was all the red flags were there so you
saw this how is it that you I guess got
connected with with Flynn you know I
can't I know I went to the first hearing
when Judge Sullivan was going to have a
status conference on the case because
judge Sullivan ironically enough is a
judicial hero of license to lie I've
been bragging on him for seven years
calling him the judicial hero of license
aligned bragging about his Brady order
and touting it as as him being the
leading judge in the country for
requiring the government to produce the
evidence that shows a defendant is
innocent
so I remember one of the first articles
I wrote was hey judge Sullivan's got
this case now flinch had moved to
withdraw his guilty plea because he's
he's a champion against government
misconduct and hiding evidence that
shows people were innocent and I just
knew evidence was being hidden again
that would have exonerated general Flint
so I attended that hearing just to get a
feel for how it was going as somebody
interested in the issue I speak on these
topics all the time and then when he had
the sentencing hearing I just happened
to be in DC and went to that somewhere
in there I had met one of his brother
his brother Joe at some event in Dallas
a seminar or something and we had talked
a little bit about how outraged I was
over what I was seeing
kind of gave him the day to dump on the
book and then it was sometime late in
the spring of 2019 I guess that the
general contacted me so it's an
incredible thing isn't it that you have
both wise men involved in the Muller
investigation and then you have Sullivan
judges all have been involved in in this
case and they're both you know very
prominent
I never imagined myself appearing before
Judge Sullivan in any kind of case at
all much less the Flynn case on Brady's
never so you know the general called you
and did you think there was something
wrong with the way that his defense team
was functioning or what how did this
transpire now this shift well I was very
concerned that I had seen things happen
so quickly with respect to his guilty
plea and without any Brady motions being
filed at all in the case I mean the
docket was a page or two the doctor
sheet was a page or two I've never seen
that in a criminal case especially one
where I just knew there was so much
wrong with the prosecution so at first I
thought I could work as perhaps
co-counsel with Covington and then it
pretty soon became apparent that that
was not going to work out at all and
realized that they had a massive
conflict of interest I didn't know when
I first got into it that they're the
ones that had actually done the foreign
agent Registration Act filing that was
why he went to them in the first place
because Rob Kilner was widely known as
being one of the leading authorities for
filing the foreign agent Registration
Act form that the Department of Justice
had written Flynn a letter about not
long after he was named incoming in Si
ironically enough and that was because
he had simply written an
head for the hill that was very opposed
to the Muslim Brotherhood and so the
Pharaoh letter had issued he sought out
Covington to help with that and then I
realized in the process of talking to
them about it that they had done the
Ferrer registration and other issues
came up that I can't discuss but anyway
he wound up terminating Covington and
Burling 'z representation of him and I
took over the case
probably last June or so he almost a
year roughly a year ago you know it's
also incredible because there's some you
know massive costs that went into this
already right i some Millions hey I
don't I don't know the exact numbers but
then to switch a council like this you
know and I mean it's a bit of a risk
right yes it is definitely a risk and of
course you know the media was full of
concern about it because everybody had
touted the great deal he had Covington
had gotten for him well it's not a great
deal if you're innocent and I talked to
him at length about the entire situation
I was absolutely convinced the man is
innocent he is as honest as the day is
long and no more patriotic person has
ever walked the face of this earth and
Michael Flynn who has devoted his life
to this country serving five years in
active combat deployed overseas and some
absolute hell holes and you know he he's
the real deal it didn't take me long
digging in the file to see that there
was a whole lot of Brady evidence that
the government had produced clues to but
not the actual evidence of and because I
had done the same thing in the brown
case that I wrote about in license to
lie I when Eric Holder came in on in the
Department of Justice and moved to
dismiss the Ted Stevens case I thought
he was serious about cleaning up the
department of justice back then I
represented a Merrill Lynch defendant
who had been the victim of made-up
crimes and hidden evidence and all of
that so I wrote Eric Holder a very
lengthy letter in fact it wound up being
about fifty pages with exhibits to try
to get his attention on the in justices
in the brown case because it was still
going on so I decided I would write a
letter to the Department of Justice and
try to get it resolved without another
black eye against the department mm and
that letter wound up being attached by
mr. van gock to one of his filings in
judge Sullivan's court and of course he
responded to it within a few weeks of me
having written it denying that there was
any Brady evidence in the case
whatsoever despite the fact he had
produced a list of things that contained
exculpatory evidence but not given us
the actual evidence fascinating so you
were petitioned to solvent on to get
this exculpatory Brady evidence but then
something happened you didn't expect I
think oh yes the greatest irony in the
case forever okay that's so I bragged
about judge Sullivan for years
everywhere across the country bragged
about judge Sullivan for requiring the
government to produce Brady evidence in
the Ted Stevens case and dismissing that
case on the government's motion because
they had hidden the evidence that showed
he was innocent so I filed a lengthy I
think it was probably I don't know 45 or
50 page brief asking and detailing all
the Brady evidence that the government
was hiding in this case including DIA
defense intelligence agency briefings
where general Flynn had told them about
all his foreign contacts before he even
made them he told them about his trips
to Russia and and had them brief him on
things they wanted him to collect for
them while he was over there and had
been reported back to them immediately
he briefed them on his turkey contact he
pre briefed everything he was doing
religiously and there was nothing secret
at all and his company had even filed
what's called a lobbying Disclosure Act
formed to comply with the Fair
registration requirements on advice of
counsel back when they first start
doing anything related to Turkey so the
whole thing was blown up from nothing so
here I've been bragging on judge
Sullivan I filed this Brady motion that
as solid as it can be the government
replies there's no Brady there's no
Brady there's no Brady you pled guilty
he pled guilty he pled guilty which has
nothing to do with it judge Sullivan's
Brady order requires the production of
Brady even after somebody's pled guilty
and a prosecutor's Brady obligation
continues even after conviction and
sentencing so that made no sense at all
and I thought surely judge Sullivan of
all people is going to give us at least
the actual documents that the government
itself has listed as having information
that was favorable to the defense and
also thought he'd give me a security
clearance to review any of the things
that the government had deemed quote
classified end quote which turned out to
be you know we find much later as
evidence of their own guilt there's a
lot of what they had classified and
that's what I expected to find but what
I didn't expect was for judge Sullivan
to deny every single Brady request a
document we asked for every single one
in a 92 page decision that was just
raging I was flabbergasted I mean I had
been convinced that he would do the
right thing and we would get Brady and
once we got any Brady at all the case
would start failing and the government
would have to move to dismiss it because
of what they had hidden but he backed
the prosecutor backed Vondrak up all the
way and I mean I knew Vondrak was
standing there lying to the court every
time he said anything so okay well so
what's going through your head and
you're reading this 92 page ruling a
decision right um what are you thinking
what I don't know maybe you can't tell
me everything you're thinking well it
was basically what in the world what in
the world is
going on here why it just made no sense
whatsoever according to the law
or the judge Sullivan that I had seen
and written about and bragged on in the
Ted Stevens case just did not jive and
the fact that general Flynn had pled
guilty had nothing to do with any of it
because number one the judge's order
required the production even after a
plea of guilty as it should and number
two they had been hiding it from the
very beginning so you know this is
actually let's let's segue a little bit
here because there's a lot to be said in
your writings about people pleading
guilty in this country in general the
stats are unbelievable and I'm kind of
shocked that this isn't generally known
how often and you know you know this a
thousand times better than I do but can
you kind of outline how often people
actually plead guilty irrespective of
the reality of the situation and why in
about 95 percent of the federal cases
I'm not sure of the State Statistics
it's probably the same people plead
guilty and so there are very few trials
if you do go to trial the government has
a 98 to 99 percent win rate so the deck
is so stacked in favor of the government
that if courts don't make them produce
Brady evidence and they need to be made
to produce it pre plea all of it
people don't stand a chance we've seem
to have lost the presumption of
innocence everybody thinks that once
someone's indicted of course all you
hear is the language of the indictment
printed in the newspapers and Wiseman
and his cronies including Vondrak can
make giving your mother a Christmas
present sound like a federal criminal
offense the way they describe it that's
what they did to the Merrill Lynch
defendants in the Enron litigation they
made a simple business transaction a
perfectly legitimate business
transaction sound like a criminal
conspiracy and deprivation of honest
services and wire fraud and it wasn't
and people spent a year in prison on
those false allegations of any criminal
conduct and then the Fifth Circuit
ultimately held the conduct wasn't
criminal the same thing happened Arthur
Andersen to the destruction of 85,000
jobs on an indictment that pieced
together parts of two different statutes
to make a crime out of something that
was not so federal prosecutors have
incredible power very little supervision
no accountability they want to destroy
qualified immunity for police officers
who have to act in split-second
life-threatening circumstances faster
than most people can even comprehend
what's going on
prosecutors have absolute immunity they
can't be sued at all for anything and so
there's no accountability they're not
held accountable by Bar Association's
for hiding evidence that's shown in
license to lie also they're not held
accountable by the Office of
Professional Responsibility and the
Department of Justice the Ted Stevens
case is an example of that so they just
do what they want to do and nothing
happens to them no matter how many lives
they destroyed or how many innocent
people they sent to prison the National
Registry of exonerations contains over
500 names of people who had pled guilty
but were later exonerated because what
we now call the conviction machine in a
new book Harvey silverglade and I wrote
it is so crushing for an individual to
try to stand up against it regardless of
their station in life I mean look at
what happened to general Flynn imagine
what happens to somebody that doesn't
have his standing his spotless record
his financial resources thanks to the
generosity of the American people who
have funded our defense fund from
increments in $1.00 to $10,000 so if
you've got a strike against you and you
get indicted you are toast so you know
clearly judicial reform is something
you're a big advocate for yes I've been
working on it for 20 years and
why don't we why don't we put put a pin
in that one because I want to think
about that a little bit more later I
want to get back to kind of the
progression here of the story you know a
US attorney gender which we didn't know
about right I mean oh yeah I think
nobody knew there was no leaking right
and this was another major turn or I
don't know if I'm missing one or not but
but tell me more about this progression
now since this moment where you realized
the Brady evidence was going to be is
denied that was the real stunning blow
I'm the next the government I think
moved to proceed with the sentencing
against him and in the process of doing
that they Vondrak was enraged about a
number of things not the least of which
was his case in the Eastern District of
Virginia against Flynn's business
partner mr. Rafiq Ian had led to a
judgment of acquittal by the district
court judge because there wasn't any
evidence of a conspiracy even enough to
get in the co-conspirator hearsay
statements and again the government had
no crime there and said the judge had
thrown that out Flynn had been supposed
to testify in that case and we were
trying to cooperate with the government
and in fact we went to multiple meetings
and and I went with him and aren't full
intent was to cooperate with him until
one day they wanted him to lie and so
that all blew up and Vondrak was enraged
in fact he screamed at me over the
speaker friend last summer probably
about the middle of July or early July
and just kind of went off the rails and
I told him there were no circumstances
under which he was going to testify to
something that was not true he wanted
him to admit that he knew these
statements on the fara form were false
when he filed it he did not he had paid
Covington and Burling hundreds of
thousands of dollars to get it right he
had no idea how the bloomin thing was
supposed to read
frankly I don't think the statements
were false in the faroe filing anyway
they certainly weren't material what
difference does it make who initiated
the op-eds the fear of filing revealed
when I dug into the fara filing even I
realized that the government itself had
made up the false statements they had
taken out blocks of keywords from the
fara filing itself to say that something
was false when it wasn't and otherwise
Covington had admitted and emails that
we found later that they knew the false
statements weren't false we've briefed
that and all the briefs by the way are
available on my website at Sydney pal
comm with the exhibits so mr. van grek
was enraged to by all of that he was so
enraged that when he requested the
sentencing be set he revoked and said he
was withdrawing two motions or positions
that had been key to the plea agreement
that was a breach of the plea agreement
so then we moved to withdraw his plea
general Finn's plea for mr. van graffs
breach of the plea agreement and by then
we had also found all kinds of other
reasons that warranted withdrawing the
plea and we briefed those at length and
those are also available on my website
but there never should have been a plea
there was a combination of Covington's
conflict of interests from having done
the fara filing they should have
withdrawn as we briefed back in August
of 2017 and then there were ineffective
assistance of counsel issue specifically
so egregious that he was deprived of his
Sixth Amendment right to counsel judge
Sullivan's quote extended plea colloquy
didn't cover key questions that should
have been asked if he if that was going
to reaffirm the plea at all and judge
Sullivan had even ended that plea
colloquy as he called it it was supposed
to have been a sentencing but all of a
sudden general Flynn is up there with
Covington lawyers beside him who were
hopelessly conflicted a situation he
doesn't fully understand
and then the judge is asking him all
these questions he wasn't expecting
about his plea turns out covington had
briefed him only to whatever you do a a
firm your plea don't seek to withdraw it
if he gives you an opportunity with the
draw it he's giving you the rope to hang
yourself that was their advice as we
briefed so he was completely blindsided
by that whole thing
thank goodness judge Sullivan at that
stage gave him an opportunity to
postpone his sentencing and he took that
opportunity that's another huge irony
because then that ultimately led to him
consulting me before he went to testify
in the Eastern District of Virginia and
essentially changed helped change the
course of history it's incredible and
this and this is all like not knowing
what attorney US attorney gentle is
doing right fascinating yep and then all
of a sudden we start getting Brady
evidence in yeah we've gotten all the
briefing done of the issues to withdraw
his plea and we also filed a motion to
dismiss for egregious government
misconduct because another thing that
happened that was very important was the
huge Inspector General report that came
out in mid-december of 2019 that was a
whole nother instance documenting
massive government misconduct judge
Sullivan at the government's request had
even postponed our briefing scheduled to
allow for that report to come forward
but yet when he issued the massive Brady
order denying everything he didn't
consider anything in there at all or
give us chance to brief it to show how
it would affect the Brady issues or
anything and it revealed the stunning
fact that agent PN qey the one of the
two FBI agents who interviewed general
Flynn on January 24 that formed the
basis of the government's whole case
against Flynn had been slipped into a
presidential briefing back on August 17
2016 for the sole purpose of collecting
information on Flynn gauging and
assessing his manner is
in case they ever needed to interview
him later
ie if Donald Trump is put in the White
House and general Flynn is there with
him that was such an abuse of FBI
authority that Christopher Rea
immediately said it would never happen
again and more recently than that the
odni has said that the FBI will no
longer be allowed to participate in
those briefings Wow that's how bad it
was so that caused me to do the motion
to dismiss for egregious government
misconduct because we had not moved to
dismiss before the end we had said we
would when we got more Brady evidence
and we expected to get it but we hadn't
actually moved to do it and that was
just stunning evidence there was more in
there to but that that was the big
nugget that was relevant to Flynn and
mr. P Enka had told the inspector
general how it related to the Flynn
interview on January 24th that gave far
more credibility even to the fact that
both those agents including PN Kahoot
interviewed him then believed he was
telling the truth he had a baseline read
on him to judge that by and they had
briefed three different groups of people
in the upper echelon of the FBI and the
DOJ after the interview to the effect
that they believed him or felt like or
knew he believed he was telling the
truth which is another thing that would
completely negate any false statement by
general Flynn whether he remembered all
the details of the calls or not and then
we find evidence that shows that they
deliberately schemed and planned how to
interview him that day to avoid letting
him know he was even the subject of the
interview they had planned that they had
had meetings to discuss how to keep him
unguarded and relaxed so that he
wouldn't even know he was the subject of
the interview and they chose multiple
ways to violate their own rules they
discussed the rules and they rejected
following them in each instance with
respect to general Flynn that was in
several material ways first they didn't
give him any notion that 1001
was involved he thought he was just
talking to two colleagues about issues
they'd been there even two days before
doing a briefing and everything for the
whole White House staff in just a
thousand and one to clarify yes that's
the federal false statement statute if
the FBI even suspects to any degree
someone is not telling them the truth
their standard operating procedure is to
remind the person that anything they say
to an FBI agent can be prosecuted as a
federal felony with a five-year penalty
under 18 United States Code section 1001
the false statement statute so they
deliberately decided no matter what
happened in that interview with general
Flynn not to even mention 1001 much less
the full statement of what it means so
that was one of their deliberate choices
not to follow protocol another was if
they're going to ask people about prior
statements they have records of and they
had full transcripts of his phone calls
with all the foreign contacts they
either had a pin register on his phone
or they had a FISA against him I still
don't know but they were monitoring all
his phone calls and they had transcripts
of them they didn't show him and they
decided not to show him the transcripts
of those phone calls as they were
questioning about it and questioning him
about them so there was no point to
question him they already knew what he
said after mr. Jensen became involved we
learned that they had completely closed
or ordered the file closed on him from
the investigation they falsely started
back in August of 2016 they had even put
surveillance on him they had not found a
single piece of derogatory information
about him 33 years in the government and
no derogatory information they searched
the files of other three-letter agencies
that were blacked out but we can imagine
which those are not the least of which
was a Defense Intelligence Agency that
he had headed for President Obama and I
would guess one of them was the CIA but
anyway there are plenty of government
files on general Flynn and not a piece
of derogatory information in one of them
they had no basis to talk to him about
anything and they still went over there
that day and ambushed him one of the
things we found that the government
never did disclose to us was a text
message between Strock and page On
January 10 of 2017 talking about struck
and pre-snap we're sitting there
watching CNN and the whole BuzzFeed and
thing about the Steele dossier exploded
in the news thanks to you know clapper
or Brennan or somebody leaking it to CNN
and BuzzFeed and then Comey briefing
President Trump on it in Trump Tower on
January 6 after being in the meeting in
the Oval Office with the eights and
clapper and Brennan and Comey and rice
and Obama and Biden on January 5th so
they're talking about using that as a
pretext to go interview some people
that's Brady the government still hasn't
given me found it accidentally just
doing my own independent research
fascinating so I mean effectively US
Attorney genin suddenly came forth me
and basically passed to you all sorts of
Brady yes he gave us the report that the
FBI Washington field office had ordered
the investigation closed
he gave us several pages of new text
messages between Strock and page
indicating the flurry of activity on
January third and fourth
struck trying to reopen the case at the
direction of the seventh floor meaning
the leadership of the FBI and then just
this past week in fact it was almost the
same time the court issued its writ of
mandamus we got a stunning piece of
handwritten notes from agent Strock that
indicate he had been talking or somebody
had been talking with President Obama
and Biden that seems to indicate Biden
is the one who mentioned pursuing a
Logan Act theory against
flan which not only has never been
successfully prosecuted in 200 years but
raises all kinds of constitutional
issues about whether it's even a valid
statute and would have no application
whatsoever to the incoming national
security advisor for the President of
the elect of the United States because
they're supposed to talk to foreign
leaders about things and not get
blindsided the day they come into office
so to even discuss that with President
Obama and Biden was remarkable and then
Obama according to the notes said make
sure you get the right look at these
things and get the right people on it
you know it's really interesting because
this this last group I guess of rady
exculpatory evidence it comes you know
after the government has already decided
to close the case yes like I said they
have a continuing obligation to produce
anything they find no matter when they
find it that doesn't stop until the case
is completely gone so you might be
getting a file tomorrow yeah I mean the
longer just Sullivan takes to dismiss
the case the more stuff they owe me
there's still a long list of things that
I know are there from the government's
own from Van racks own Brady letters
that I know us there there's a January
30 memo inside the Department of Justice
completely exonerating general flan of
all things Russia January 30 2017 while
he was still in the White House and not
only did they not tell him of all those
things for his defense of this case or
back then they used the Flynn
prosecution to gin up an obstruction of
justice prosecution or impeachment hoax
of President Trump coming new when he
talked that a president on February 14
2017 that Flynn had been cleared of
everything so when the president said
Flynn's a good guy I hope you know this
is going to go he should have told him
it's already gone mr. president we
cleared him weeks ago in a steady runs
to his car and writes another dear diary
that he
to the New York Times about how the
president's trying to obstruct justice
by just hoping the Flynn case is gone
when it was already gone faster day I
mean it's I guess it's this rabbit hole
that keeps going deeper and deeper as we
keep learning more information we've
been covering this whole these I guess
all of these different related issues
from the get-go you know yeah the number
of years and and it's it's it's just
unbelievable watching how it evolved and
of course we're kind of in the midst of
I guess history being written here it's
completely yes so yes I could get in
fact I I heard there's more to come
more Brady evidence to come and there
has to be because like I said I know
they're documents they're from the
government's own list that show he's
innocent
so okay right now a few days have passed
this DC Circuit Court has said now close
this case judge Sullivan it hasn't
happened what what do you expect is
going on right now why the delay and
what's being considered well it could be
that they're discussions going on inside
the DC Circuit as to whether the court
as a whole I call it on bonk from the
French expression and Bank when the
courts it's in all the judges all the
active not senior but all the regular
judges of the DC Circuit would sit on
bonk and reviewed the decision of the
panel that would be the only way to
change the decision of the panel and
even more compelling is the fact that
the very well written and authoritative
decision of the two judges of the panel
who signed on to it rests on a very well
written decision by the chief judge of
the DC Circuit and it is authoritative
on the very issues in this case when a
rule 48 a motion to dismiss is brought
by the government the
Eve of Court provision that's in it is
according to the Supreme Court is only
there to protect the defendant from
harassment the government filed the most
substantial motion to dismiss I have
seen in my time of in practice it's a
hundred pages including all the Excel
pataw Reeb rady evidence that was found
and there's nothing to inquire about the
district judge doesn't get to go behind
the documents that have been filed to
inquire into the decision of the
executive to dismiss any more than the
executive could probe behind the Court
of Appeals decision to see why and who
and whatever happened to create that
decision it's separation of powers in
our Constitution at the very basic level
c1 then there's also this the order to
vacate the amicus yes judge Sullivan and
the first thing he did that went off the
rails after the motion to dismiss was to
name a quote friend of the court an
amicus to pursue the case in the stead
of the government so his friend was
going to brief it and did brief it both
against the government and the defense
as to why the case shouldn't be
dismissed he doesn't get to appoint a
special prosecutor that's all within the
power of the Department of Justice to
decide what is going to be prosecuted
and when nevermind the incredible double
standard of you know how they treated
other people who might have been
prosecuted for things and weren't so you
know you when we were talking offline
you always have a plan a plan B Plan C
for everything maybe you don't want to
you know reveal all your cards but what
do you expect will happen here are you
ready to take this to the Supreme Court
your exam whatever whatever we need to
do I mean I came in this case believing
in my clients innocence believing the
judge Sullivan was going to do the right
thing and that we'd be done by now but I
know he's innocent
and I will not stop until that is
totally proven and the Supreme Court
denies my petition for rehearing it's
necessary you know we are going to
continue this fight however long it
takes and wherever
guys what about I mean there's a lot of
unanswered questions here presumably and
the material that you've seen there's a
lot of things that pertain to this whole
you know that's called the Russia
collusion scenario there's there's
there's basically a lot of material
that's now I guess under not available
to the general public to view that that
the public may be interested in that
what do you expect will happen with all
this let's say the case closes and let's
say you do let's say that the case is
over in the in a few days what would
happens to all of that well anything
that was produced to us under the
protective order there's a possibility
that it has to be returned to the
government of course we have filed a lot
of documents publicly with the agreement
of the government they've been unsealed
or publicly filed so those are still
available some other things I would
think would be highly relevant to mr.
Durham's investigation in fact I'm
pretty sure that a few of the things we
have gotten actually came from that
because I can't they didn't have
markings of government forms or files
and that's the only way I can think of
they they might have gotten them is if
somebody gave them to him or they were a
result of a grand jury subpoena or
something they didn't have of course
there was a lot redacted but it didn't
look like an official government thing
so there's still a whole lot more
information that needs to be brought out
for the people to know all the truth
about everything that happened both with
respect to general Flynn and President
Trump and the whole situation writ large
but we have a lot more insight into it
now that we've put all the pieces
together that we have with respect to
Flynn so for you and general Flynn and
everyone in but it's a waiting game
yes at this point yes yes but what am I
getting to benefit from that you get to
sit down right yes that's right
otherwise I would have had a brief to
you at noon Friday
another one due shortly and yes so the
briefing schedule has been completely
terminated and the hearing schedule has
been terminated but the case has not
been terminated so you know give me a
sense of you know what the workload has
been like on this case oh roughly twenty
hours a day seven days a week
since I got into it I mean we had
covington gave us 18 hard drives of
information and then we found out
hopefully that was another unexpected
twist that I'd forgotten about only a
few months ago they let us know they
hadn't produced everything right yes and
there were another I forgot how many
tens of thousands of documents and then
we found out we still don't have it all
so there are a lot of unanswered
questions from many directions so you
know you've been working on this I know
Molly McCann has come and worked with
you we've talked about her I've been
communicating with her a bit who is
actually working on this case the core
team has been Molly of course who
happened along the way the last summer
probably about a year ago right now God
send in every way and then my co-counsel
who was local counsel but I wanted them
to serve more as co-counsel and they
have certainly fulfilled that role is
Jesse banal with the Harvey banal firm
and in Alexandria and Lindsey McKesson
who works with him maybe much younger
lawyer and then a baby lawyer Abbey Frey
who's in her first year of practice have
just been absolutely extraordinary they
have put in long hours and been right
there to do what we needed and it was so
amazing to see the right person show up
at the right time with the right
information throughout this case and we
also had a couple of secret weapons from
general Flint's family that were
invaluable his niece Alisha cuts her
from Pennsylvania is a terrific lawyer
she can find things research facts and
law amazingly well and came up with key
decisions that we needed at the right
time and his sister Claire Eckhart who
is a brilliant paralegal and
communications strategist and has her
own company we just put together people
who understood what had gone wrong and
what needed to be done and proceeded to
do it any sense of where mr. van crock
has gone after leaving the case well he
was head of the fara division at the
Department of Justice I'm assuming he's
still there I would certainly hope he is
under a serious OPR investigation
because his conduct in this case and
denying there was Brady material was
appalling completely unethical not to
mention the temper tantrum he threw at
me when I told him Flynn was not going
to line that he was asking him to lie
which he knew by the way because he had
edited the plea agreement to take out
the specific language he didn't insisted
mr. Flynn admit to that was just a
rather remarkable interchange we still
have a lot of work to do tying up some
loose ends so and with respect to
general Flynn he's very been very very
quiet over quite a number of years
recently there were a few short
interviews yeah they weren't really
interviews he called into a few radio
shows before everything got turned
upside down by Judge Sullivan not
signing the order just to say thank you
to the American public and the radio
hosts in particular who have been so
supportive of him and helped raise money
for the Defense Fund
I mean we've been operating off the
generosity of the American people and a
lot of the donations have been what I
would call the Widow's mite fascinating
and so has is he under a gag order is
that the no there's no real gag order
but discretion being the better part of
valor and he is full of valor he has
chosen to try to let the system work its
way out that's what I've been determined
to see happen to make the justice system
itself work
and to pound on the Department of
Justice to do the right thing here and
restore its own reputation by moving to
dismiss and acknowledge the wrong
conduct of its agents and attorneys that
is hugely important to restoring
people's confidence in the rule of law
the FBI and the Justice Department it's
it's an imperative it's absolutely
imperative that the Department of
Justice returned to the time when it was
self correct it's huge
I mean when I was as an assistant US
attorney I was raised to tell the judge
the truth whatever it was the good the
bad the ugly I'm on the record and the
Fifth Circuit footnote for saying the
agents botched it the judge quoted me in
the footnote in the in the decision we
still won because it turned out to be
harmless error but I wasn't going to say
they had done the right thing when they
did not that's the way an assistant US
attorney is supposed to be somewhere in
the last 20 years we lost that we came
to a time when these people think the
end justifies the means they're using
the law as a weapon to destroy people
innocent people that destroy people's
lives and that's not what our system of
justice is about so the Department of
Justice has got to start standing up for
the right thing
the only politics in this prosecution
was from the very beginning of it on the
side of prosecuting general Flynn at all
and I'm convinced now in particular that
what Attorney General Barr is trying
very hard to do is right the ship you
know so this actually brings us to that
pin that we put in earlier about this
reform that that you feel is needed
you're you know suggesting some some
things in a very broad way but you know
this is a very big ship and you know
it's it's once it started going it's
kind of hard to get it to come back or
very what's very difficult it's gonna be
very difficult but it can be done so
what would it has to be done if we're
gonna survive it's a constitutional
republic built on the rule of law so
what are your
you know kind of key recommendations and
you know you've written about some of
this of course but but at this point if
you were to sit down with general bar
and say you know here's here's my steers
what I would suggest I'd fire any
prosecutor that intentionally violated
the brady rule i would make it known
immediately that if you know you have
intentionally violated the rules that
requires you to produce exculpatory
evidence to any defendant or you have
criminalized innocent conduct or you
have made up a crime you've got two
minutes to give me your resignation and
and then otherwise there should be a
sporadic independent file review i'd
like to see a conviction Integrity
review unit set up to review some of the
more egregious cases by people
independent sort of the line prosecutors
and whose goal is to look for errors the
inspector general's not enough for that
he doesn't have the authority needed to
do what would need to be done for full
file reviews the same needs to be done
with respect to the FBI the inspector
general is doing that on multiple thys
applications and finding more and more
fraudulent visa applications every agent
who did that should be fired yesterday
they cannot have government officials
trusted with the power of the sovereign
of the United States of America lying to
federal judges it's just it it just
can't happen it's completely
unacceptable and there have to be
immediate repercussions for that and
another thing is the FBI should be
required to record all its interviews
right it's a simple enough matter they
all have multiple recording devices on
their persons at all times and people
should be told at the beginning that
anything they say can be used against
them by the FBI or a court that's a
federal felony to lie to an FBI agent
and then decide whether they want to
cooperate with the FBI or not
and if it's not recorded it should not
be used for any purpose there's some
pretty concrete suggestions any final
words before we finish up one of the
important things that we didn't hit is
that the fact that the FBI actually made
up the false statements that they then
charged general Flynn with they altered
the FBI report of the interview since it
wasn't recorded and the government has
admitted in their motion to dismiss that
there are statements in the 302 that
were not reflected in the notes of
either agent and they used those
statements as quote the basis for the
false statement charges and then there
are things in the notes that didn't I
couldn't make sense out of them until I
saw the Declassified transcripts of the
calls and then I knew that he had told
them things about the call that they had
not put in the report so it ran both
ways they didn't put in things he did
say that were true and they added things
to it
claiming he said them that he did not
say they made up the false statements
and so you know your your prescription
for four agents that do this sort of
thing is pretty clear yep fire on me
yesterday at a minimum and frankly what
they've done is obstruction of justice
for which they should be prosecuted the
Department of Justice is going to have
to start prosecuting agents and lawyers
who lie to the court and make up crimes
against innocent people what do you make
I have to ask you this but you know
there's this you know large
organizations of any sort have a certain
sort of inertia kind of a will will to
perpetuate whatever themselves I suppose
that's something I've noticed over the
years in the various scenarios and also
you know there's this desire also to I
guess it's interesting because to
maintain the integrity of the I think
there's people that feel that if you
know if all of this terrible stuff is
expose
no one will trust the Justice Department
anymore know that I think the precise
opposite is true it's exposing what
actually happened and remedying it by
the Department of Justice itself acting
on it and the FBI acting on it that will
restore public trust hiding it is going
to make everything worse nothing ever
got solved by sweeping it under the rug
Sidney Powell such a pleasure to have
you thank you yawn it's always a
pleasure to be here and we thank the
American people writ large for all their
support for general Flynn their prayers
we have felt uplifted by their prayers
and the whole team appreciates all of it
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