Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: woodpusher

Hi.

Welcome to FR.

“”All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States....”” 14th Amdt.

The first sentence applies to native Americans and slaves. (Note the date of amendment). The second sentence refers to people under another jurisdiction. For example foreign diplomats in the U.S. at time of birth.

Another example would be immigrants born in the U.S. with two parents w/o American citizenship, therefore not subject to the laws/jurisdiction of the U.S..

Now I forget the point I was trying to make.

Sheesh.

5.56mm


72 posted on 06/22/2020 11:44:51 AM PDT by M Kehoe (DRAIN THE SWAMP! Finish THE WALL!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies ]


To: M Kehoe
The first sentence applies to native Americans and slaves. (Note the date of amendment).

This restrictive contention is incorrect. Chinese and others were explicitly considered. Wong Kim Ark was the natural born U.S. citizen child of two Chinese ineligible for naturalization. the See Wong Kim Ark, at 169 U.S. 698-99:

The fourteenth amendment of the constitution, as originally framed by the house of representatives, lacked the opening sentence. When it came before the senate in May, 1866, Mr. Howard, of Michigan, moved to amend by prefixing the sentence in its present form (less the words 'or naturalized'), and reading: 'All persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.' Mr. Cowan objected, upon the ground that the Mongolian race ought to be excluded, and said, 'Is the child of the Chinese immigrant in California a citizen?' 'I do not know how my honorable friend from California looks upon Chinese, but I do know how some of his fellow citizens regard them. I have no doubt that now they are useful, and I have no doubt that within proper restraints, allowing that state and the other Pacific states to manage them as they may see fit, they may be useful; but I would not tie their hands by the constitution mgone from the country, and is beyond its jurisdiction them hereafter from dealing with them as in their wisdom they see fit.' Mr. Conness, of California, replied: 'The proposition before us relates simply, in that respect, to the children begotten of Chinese parents in California, and it is proposed to declare that they shall be citizens. We have declared that by law; now it is proposed to incorporate the same provision in the fundamental instrument of the Nation. I am in favor of doing so. I voted for the proposition to declare that the children of all parentage whatever, born in California, should be regarded and treated as citizens of the United States, entitled to equal civil rights with other citizens of the United States.' 'We are entirely ready to accept the provision proposed in this constitutional amendment, that the children born here of Mongolian parents shall be declared by the constitution of [169 U.S. 649, 699] the United States to be entitled to civil rights and to equal protection before the law with others.' Cong. Globe, 39th Cong. 1st Sess. pt. 4, pp. 2890-2892. It does not appear to have been suggested, in either house of congress, that children born in the United States of Chinese parents would not come within the terms and effect of the leading sentence of the fourteenth amendment.

Doubtless, the intention of the congress which framed, and of the states which adopted, this amendment of the constitution, must be sought in the words of the amendment, and the debates in congress are not admissible as evidence to control the meaning of those words. But the statements above quoted are valuable as contemporaneous opinions of jurists and statesmen upon the legal meaning of the words themselves, and are, at the least, interesting as showing that the application of the amendment to the Chinese race was considered and not overlooked.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The second sentence refers to people under another jurisdiction. For example foreign diplomats in the U.S. at time of birth.

Another example would be immigrants born in the U.S. with two parents w/o American citizenship, therefore not subject to the laws/jurisdiction of the U.S..

Accredited diplomats yes; the rest is readily shown to be in direct conflict with the binding Supreme Court precedent of Wong Kim Ark.

169 U.S. 682:

The real object of the fourteenth amendment of the constitution, in qualifying the words 'all persons born in the United States' by the addition 'and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,' would appear to have been to exclude, by the fewest and fittest words (besides children of members of the Indian tribes, standing in a peculiar relation to the national government, unknown to the common law), the two classes of cases,—children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation, and children of diplomatic representatives of a foreign state,—both of which, as has already been shown, by the law of England and by our own law, from the time of the first settlement of the English colonies in America, had been recognized exceptions to the fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the country. Calvin's Case, 7 Coke, 1, 18b; Cockb. Nat. 7; Dicey, Confl. Laws, 177; Inglis v. Sailors' Snug Harbor, 3 Pet. 99, 155; 2 Kent, Comm. 39, 42.

169 U.S. at 687:

The words 'in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,' in the first sentence of the fourteenth amendment of the constitution, must be presumed to have been understood and intended by the congress which proposed the amendment, and by the legislatures which adopted it, in the same sense in which the like words had been used by Chief Justice Marshall in the well known case of The Exchange, and as the equivalent of the words 'within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States,' and the converse of the words 'out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States,' as habitually used in the naturalization acts.

169 U.S. at 693-94

The foregoing considerations and authorities irresistibly lead us to these conclusions: The fourteenth amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including all children here born of resident aliens, with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes. The amendment, in clear words and in manifest intent, includes the children born within the territory of the United States of all other persons, of whatever race or color, domiciled within the United States. Every citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here, is within the allegiance and the protection, and consequently subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States. His allegiance to the United States is direct and immediate, and, although but local and temporary, continuing only so long as he remains within our territory, is yet, in the words of Lord Coke in Calvin's Case, 7 Coke, 6a, 'strong enough to make a natural subject, for, if he hath issue here, that issue is a natural-born subject'; and his child, as said by Mr. Binney in his essay before quoted, 'If born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural-born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle.' It can hardly be denied that an alien is completely subject to the political jurisdiction of the country in which he resides, seeing that, as said by Mr. Webster, when secretary of state, in his report to the president on Thrasher's case in 1851, and since repeated by this court: 'Independently of a residence with intention to continue such residence; independently of any domiciliation; independently of the taking of any oath of allegiance, or of renouncing any former allegiance,—it is well known that by the public law an alien, or a stranger [169 U.S. 649, 694] born, for so long a time as he continues within the dominions of a foreign government, owes obedience to the laws of that government, and may be punished for treason or other crimes as a native-born subject might be, unless his case is varied by some treaty stipulations.' Executive Documents H. R. No. 10, 1st Sess. 32d Cong. p. 4; 6 Webster's Works, 526; U. S. v. Carlisle, 16 Wall. 147, 155; Calvin's Case, 7 Coke, 6a; Ellesmere, Postnati, 63; 1 Hale, P. C. 62; 4 Bl. Comm. 74, 92.

To hold that the fourteenth amendment of the constitution excludes from citizenship the children born in the United States of citizens or subjects of other countries, would be to deny citizenship to thousands of persons of English, Scotch, Irish, German, or other European parentage, who have always been considered and treated as citizens of the United States.


74 posted on 06/24/2020 9:34:59 AM PDT by woodpusher
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson