Army secretary open to renaming military bases named for Confederate generals

Fox News ^ | June 08 2020 | Jennifer Griffin, Bradford Betz

[SmokingJoe]

Slavery has been around in one form or the other since the start of time in every single civilization, including slavery in Africa long before the White man ever stepped there. It's part of the history of every culture from China to India to Scandinavia. It's part of the history of every culture, every civilization.
You leftist fanatics keep talking like America invented slavery and blacks had never been slaves before they were transported to Africa. Nothing could be further from the truth.
You can't just erase your history by letting some wild mob run wild destroying, burning and looting everything like Genghis Khan.

[SmokingJoe]

You talk like the blacks that were transported from Africa were not already practicing slavery in Africa long before the White man ever stepped there and the very men who were transported as slaves may have been slave owners and themselves before being captured by other tribes and sold off.
Have you even ever been to any of the West African countries from which the trans Atlantic Slave trade took place? Visited the Cape Coast and El Mina castles which were the major staging points for the slaves to be put on ships to America?
I have. Several times.
And have you even read the histories of any of the West African countries?
This is not a matter of one race practiced slavery and other races did not. All races practiced slavery.

[Svartalfiar]

There was a time when I actually accepted this line of reasoning, but it's garbage and not a position that I changed recently. Slavery was the issue that divided the north and south before secession and the political battles about whether or not the territories being added to America would be slaveholding states or free states preceded the actual battles of the Civil War. I don't expect historical figures to have cosmopolitan viewpoints, but even by the 1850's abolition was a very well debated topic and people were making conscious decisions about whether or not to support the continued enslavement of blacks. Lee knew the southern states were seceeding to preserve slavery. He didn't see that as a deal breaker for his honor.

Slavery wasn't even close to the main reason for the War Between the States. It was more economics and overbearing Federal government. Not to get too deep into the entire slavery argument, but why did the North wait to abolish slavery until after the war? Lincoln 'freed' all the slaves in the South, which wasn't under his control, yet he couldn't do the same for all the slaves in the North? Lee has several writing about how he didn't like slavery, yet he believed the best way to end it was to allow for Christianity to grow and do it, not to have a great war to force it's end. Lee's declination of command of the Union Armies, as well as his resignation, as well as further correspondence after all states that he could not raise arms against his fellow citizens.

[Svartalfiar]

Except the idea of perpetual union was specifically rejected by the framers of the Constitution - that term was used in the Articles of Confederation, and purposely not used when writing the Constitution. And, obviously, the original Confederation was not very perpetual, since it was tossed aside only a few years after being agreed to.

Yes, Lee saw secession as being revolutionary, but it was more because he saw that it was not likely to be peaceful, and would cause great harm to many people in both the North and South. If you read the rest of the letter prior to your section, He states that he understands the reasons the South is doing so, yet hopes that all Constitutional measures are attempted (exhausted) before they must resort to force. Other letters he wrote (such as to his daughter) mention if the bond of the Union could “only be maintained by the sword and bayonet . . . its existence will lose all interest with me.”

[OIFVeteran]

They created the constitution to "form a more perfect Union", don't know how you make it more perfect but get rid of the perpetual part.

And James Madison, the father of the constitution, was very explicit on how long the constitution was to be adopted. He wrote this letter to Alexander Hamilton and Hamilton then read it to the New York State ratifying convention.

From James Madison to Alexander Hamilton

N. York Sunday Evening [20 July 1788]

My Dear Sir

Yours of yesterday is this instant come to hand & I have but a few minutes to answer it. I am sorry that your situation obliges you to listen to propositions of the nature you describe. My opinion is that a reservation of a right to withdraw if amendments be not decided on under the form of the Constitution within a certain time, is a conditional ratification, that it does not make N. York a member of the New Union, and consequently that she could not be received on that plan. Compacts must be reciprocal, this principle would not in such a case be preserved. The Constitution requires an adoption in toto, and for ever. It has been so adopted by the other States. An adoption for a limited time would be as defective as an adoption of some of the articles only. In short any condition whatever must viciate the ratification. What the New Congress by virtue of the power to admit new States, may be able & disposed to do in such case, I do not enquire as I suppose that is not the material point at present. I have not a moment to add more than my fervent wishes for your success & happiness.

James Madison