Posted on 06/05/2020 11:08:54 AM PDT by Morgana
The man really seemed very unstable. There was something wrong with his balance. A normal person would not have fallen like that.
>> A Buffalo Police spokesman issued a statement at 8:50 p.m. Thursday saying “a 5th person was arrested during a skirmish with other protestors and also charged with disorderly conduct. During that skirmish involving protestors, one person was injured when he tripped & fell.” <<
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Yep. It would help if so many police did not keep proving that there is indeed something rotten in Denmark.
Go back and watch it again. Then watch it again, paying close attention to th old hippie’s right hand. What is he doing? It appears to be moving towards the officer’s belt.
I urge everyone to try to grab an officer’s belt during a high stress protest. Let’s see how that turns out.
People need to watch this shit without being told what you are seeing.
that could be- i thought maybe he was trying to get a photo of the gun- but his phone or whatever it was, was way too close for that-
[[You do not reach for a policeman’s
gun belt in a volatile situation and not expect to be pushed back.]]
exactly- Sorry he got hurt- but really, people need to use common sense- the situation is very volatile right now- don’t do crap that can be misinterpreted or do crap that instigates reactions like that- They need to use their heads- Protest peacefully- Stop getting so confrontational, stop ignoring the police when they repeatedly warn to back off- and everything will be fine- This wouldn’t have happened if the dude hadn’t squared up to police and reach out like he had after being told to back off-
even that isn’t explainable- you can see the police created a barrier around the subject- not knowing how the crowd was going to react- the video shuts off before we got to see if they did help the man once they secured the area or not you could see the police form a circle around the man- and when the one cop started to go towards the man, he was stopped by the other cop and told something- probably something like ;secure the area first’ - who knows- again- we only see a short clip that ‘looks bad’ without knowing all the details that happened-
Absolutely disagree with you.
Re-watch the video.
Watch the old guys right hand. What is he doing with his phone? He points it at one officer first, and then touches the second officer with it.
A couple of things come to mind. The first is he is trying to “spoof” his radio or phone. Second is that his movement could be interpreted as a movement to the officer’s firearm.
That is going to get you a sharp stick in the gut.
The cop was following his training. And it’s common training.
Of course, you have to be a “tortfeasor” for the liability to attach under the “eggshell skull victim” doctrine. A police officer in a line of officers marching together toward a domestic violence or riotous situation is not automatically considered a “tortfeasor,” even in this situation. Arguably the aggressor and person who made the initial contact is the old guy himself. That would make him the tortfeasor.
There are lots of issues here. The episode will turn on whether that slight push, not extremely strong for an able-bodied person, was beyond the scope of what was necessary in the mind of the officer who pushed him, given what the officer could possibly have known at the time.
There are enough issues here for a law school exam.
He seemed agitated and uptight, and acting in a rigid manner when he tensed up squaring himself up to the police in a semi aggressive manner- - this can sometimes affect balance as the body is ‘bracing itself’ the muscles can get rigid- kinda like when a person is shocked by seeing something that makes them tense up- - but he was older- maybe there was a condition he had besides- don’t know- hard telling from the video
He mighta been a bit mentally unstable- seems he was pretty agitated-
Look at the tape again. He was tagging them with his cell phone, actually assaulting them. In his hand is a cell phone. He first touches the guy that shoved him with the phone, then reaches over and touches the guy walking beside him. Would you change your opinion of the situation if there was poison on that phone? Pretty stupid to get in the way of marching troops. The old dude had no right to block their path. And from the way he was on the pavement, it looked like he didn’t even try to break his fall.
Watch him. Does it appear that he was making an effort to hold out a helmet to them? He had the helmet at his side. No effort was made to “offer” it. Is that how you would return something?
And that’s a “scooter” helmet, not a cop helmet.
This guy is an old hippie showing the youngster’s “how it’s done.”
Don’t play if you can’t stand the elbows.
> his movement could be interpreted as a movement to the officer’s firearm <
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. If the old guy was empty-handed, I might be able to see your point. But he was holding something. And he moved his hand above the officer’s arm. Not below it, where the cop’s gun was.
And if the cop really thought that the old guy was going for his gun, why wasn’t the old guy cuffed and arrested? Why did everyone just walk on past him?
Anyway, as I see it:
Old guy: Stupid.
Cops: Too hard a shove, but no harm was meant. Hand out a few days suspension, and that’s it.
Yes, he was holding something - it was a TAZER disguised as a cell phone. ANTIFA agitators use innocent looking people to do their work for them. Sorta like ISIS.
The officers in this instance are not required to, nor should they be expected to evaluate the total threat, the age, the gender, or the physical abilities of the person approaching them and not obeying their lawful commands. If they guess wrong, the officer goes to the morgue at the close of day, instead of his home.
> Yes, he was holding something - it was a TAZER disguised as a cell phone. <
That would be a game-changer! And if that can be shown, then the old guy should be in jail.
But I’d rather that cops not always assume the worst. Yes, I know they have a difficult, stressful, and dangerous job. I get all that. But if we accept that cops should always assume the worse, bad things will happen to innocent people (not that this old guy was innocent).
Remember that guy - Daniel Shaver - who was shot by Mesa police? The cops had Shaver on his belly. Shaver was confused, frightened, and crying. He was actually begging for his life. Then he went to hike up his pants. The police shot him dead.
Did Shaver make a wrong move? You bet. But he’s not the one who had conflict training.
Thank God the guy is white.
You know many of these things are setups.
About 25 years ago when I was much younger, I had to represent a client who was faced with violent environmental protesters, very much like antifa, trying to shut down their project. I had to be on property to represent the client when the protesters arrived (there were several hundred, many of whom had been flown in from another part of the country and then were bused into the site). I had about 6 uniformed police officers with me, and there were also plainclothes officers in the crowd.
So 2 of the environmental assholes came up into my face and started yelling and screaming about how they were going to kill me and destroy the project, four letter words all over the place. Others in the group were swinging shovels and a pickaxe like they were going to take me out. The police sergeant near me, totally calm, leans over to me and whispers, “be careful, they’re miked,” and then he points over at one of the other protesters and there is a video camera peaking out from under the guy’s knapsack. He also says the guy with the pickaxe won’t actually hurt me, he’s a 2-time felon and would be going away for life if he actually did anything.
(In addition to the surreptitious cameras, they also had a professional film crew with them to film the whole thing. An undercover officer who had infiltrated the group said that at the organizational meeting earlier, they had been told that this was all part of a major fundraising effort by the group to get money, and we were the designated bad guy.)
So these guys act like assholes hoping for some sort of reaction, and then they edit the footage to make it look like you are the bad guy. It’s pretty clear that is what was going on here initially with the filming happening, but unfortunately they got more of a reaction than they were hoping for.
The video makes it seem like he is all alone. But their are rioters just behind him. You see them later in the video
“And if that can be shown, then the old guy should be in jail.”
The problem is, the cop cannot be expected to guess correctly about what is going on in mere seconds with limited information. It can be life and death to the cop. They aren’t paid enough for that deal.
The basic rule of life is don’t touch cops, don’t approach cops when they have asked you to move, and don’t make sudden moves when the situation is tense. All in all, this was not a shotgun blast to the gut.
“Two medics came forward and treated the victim. They helped put him in an ambulance and he was taken away. “
If it’s the guys in camo, they knelt beside the old man almost immediately. The officers that had the encounter also almost immediately had some yahoo to deal with that barged into the scene. Their job was to maintain the advancing line.
Hell on that. Gugino is a long time lefty from the toney suburb of Amherst who posted “f*** the police” on twitter. He wanted an incident and tried to draw a yellow card, but his soccer skills are on a par with his politics.
>Spit<
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