I think that Dr Baden, after examining Jeffry Epstein, had a pretty clear idea of what he was looking at. It was “mechanical asphyxia,” nearly the same thing Epstein died of. His conclusion created the meme, “Epstein did not kill himself.” But, excuse my digression.
IMHO, the first team failed to do the tests that show the results of chest compression. This is the type of compression that occurs when people are trampled in crowds as they are trying to escape a disaster. Dr. Baden and Dr. Allecia Wilson, with their advanced experience and knowledge, knew how to test for it. Maybe the first team was in a rush and did not include the tests.
The first team did not do the tests to detect carotid artery compression. The Baden Team did and knew what to look for. Instead, they examined cardiac arrest and the results of the toxicology. Maybe they were in a rush to get a conclusion and looked at the easy clues. In my mind, it looks like whitewash to get a lesser conviction for Derek Chauvin. Yet, I may have a conclusion that does not consider what happens when there is a rush to judgement. It is their conclusion that could give Chauvin a lesser sentence because it does not prove malice. In their testimony, they will have to describe the nature of their test for carotid artery compression.
I have no clue why you are sticking up for Chauvin. Why have you made a great effort on this thread to do so? And, I have found plenty of misstatements that I have had to correct. I don’t blame you for them. There are lots of areas where anyone can easily make inaccurate conclusions. Believe me, such happened with discussions about the coronavirus which many considered a mistake for the lock downs and the masks.
If Chauvin does get a lesser sentence, or no conviction, all this mayhem would have been a complete mistake. Heads would explode and walls will come tumbling down.
[[I think that Dr Baden, after examining Jeffry Epstein, had a pretty clear idea of what he was looking at. It was “mechanical asphyxia,” nearly the same thing Epstein died of.]]
IF Baden was correct- which I’m not sure he was- as other examiners looked at epstein too- but we won’t know the truth unless a trial comes out on him- He claimed epstein had a crushed windpipe- some bone in the neck was smashed- No bones in floyd’s neck were crushed- blocking off the airway as far as i know-
By the way- you can put a lot of pressure on your own carotid artery and not pass out- I did so last night- you can too to test it- Enough pressure to hurt- still didn’t pass out- George was moving his head around so the claims that the policeman ‘stood his full weight on his neck’ isn’t accurate- George was also breathing-
Baden claimed inexplicably to Sharn Hannity “Peopel say that ‘if you can talk, you can breath’, and shawn- I have been talking for a minute now without taking a breath, so it’s not true’ or soem such nonsense- The knee was on the neck for several minutes and you can clearly see george taking breaths, and speaking- there does come a point where he isn’t taking any m ore breaths, but again, this could be due to heart attack, not knee on neck or due to the drugs, and not knee on neck - this keoy point will be hashed out in court- Again- pressure to carotid doesn’t mean automatic passing out and complete blood loss to brain-
To your karate chop point- several thigns happen in a strike like that- it’s not a simple chop to the artery- it hits several main nerves with extreme force as well- which cause a temporary blackout- but regardless- you can test the coritid thing yourself-
Now, the neck is completely enveloped- and pressure is applied, cutting off all the arteries, and airway- then the person will pass out- happens all the time in MMA-
[[The first team did not do the tests to detect carotid artery compression.]]
You know this how?
[[Instead, they examined cardiac arrest and the results of the toxicology. ]]
No I’m sorry- but their report came out before the tox report- saying no asphyxiation
[[It is their conclusion that could give Chauvin a lesser sentence because it does not prove malice. ]]
At the very least He will likely be convicted in the criminal case, (not the civil) of making poor decisions that led to death- but i suspect it will be higher than that- perhaps negligent homicide-
[[I have no clue why you are sticking up for Chauvin.]]
I am sticking up for objectivity- IF baden can show crushed neck bones, ruptured airsacks or whatever, that resulted from a knee to the neck then so be it- I’m not going to jump to a conclusion at this point and claim Baden found those things when there is no indication that he did- -
[[I have found plenty of misstatements that I have had to correct.]]
Sorry- but no you haven’t- you have given your opinion which i disagreed with and pointed out why- I still disagree with the thigns you are claiming that Baden found- so no- you haven’t corrected anything-
[[If Chauvin does get a lesser sentence, or no conviction, all this mayhem would have been a complete mistake. Heads would explode and walls will come tumbling down.]]
You know why i am stickign up for obiectivity? Precisely because we’ve been down this road many times before- and first impressions were compeltely wrong- peopel judged based on emotions and not knowign all the faqcts-
The George Zimmerman case was a classic example- The Michael Brown another classic case- People saw him with his ‘hands up dont’ shoot’ and concluded a racist cop shot a ‘harmless gentle giant who just wanted to surrender’- I fought for objectivity in that case too=- not knowing at the time that the cop and brown had fought INSIDE his police car, and the cop had to fight for his life- and not knowing at the time that brown dropped his hands and charged the officer again- these facts were kept repressed by the msm- but i suspected there was more to the story and argued as such-
IF you can hsow me, and indeed FR that Floyd’s kneck has injuries consistent with strangulation, which is what ‘mechanical asphyxiation’ means really- then do so- and I’ll admit that is what took place- but until then- we have dueling autopsy reports- and you’ve chosen the one paid by the family to believe- so don’t insinuate that only others are being biased-
At this point- knowing what i know about mechanical asphyxiation, it takes a tremendous amoutn of pressure, around hte neck, to cause this- The officer did not have Floyd in aq ‘rear naked choke hold’ like hannity suggested happened- nowhere near close to a choke hold- I did not see evidence of the second officer compressing floyd’s chest preventing the diaphragm to function like Baden suggested happened, nor have i seen evidence from baden showing it did happen-
I am not going to convict anyone, in the court of public opinion, based on nothing but opinions- especially when there are dueling professional opinions to be had- Baden has been wrong in the past on high profile cases- I will withhold judgement until more evidence is presented- factual evidence- If that can’t be had, then I’ll withhold judgement until enough ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ circumstantial evidence is presented to make a case- That is how objective analysis is done-
i am NOT saying the officer didn’t cause his death- I am saying there is evidence enough, at this point, to suggest that he may not have- Everyone on this thread and many other threads has practically become judge jury and executioner and have found him guilty of being an ‘arrogant cocky white cop who gleefully murdered a blackman while black folks pleaded with him to put the due in the car’
While the video does indeed ‘look bad’ we’ve been down this road many times before- and it’;s turned out all was not what it seemed- There were many folks that believed deep i n their hearts that george zimmerman was guilty- that he had no right patrolling an area known for crime in his neighborhood, and felt he had no right to ‘stand his ground’ all of which were false- Those folks got very nasty towards anyone that argued for objectivity then- any many to this day still are very angry George was found innocent- That is the mentality of those involved in public lynchings- in mob rule- instad of waiting for all the eiveence to be presented- they find the defendant guilty in public opinion court- and nothing will change their minds- not facts, not evidence, not even video evidence- not even all those things together- Many believe the white folks in Arbery case are guilty of ‘hunting him down like an animal and executing him simply because the two father and son team were racists’- many people jumped to conclusions because hte ‘videos looked bad’ (Even though the fight was off screen where arbery was attempting to take the gun from the owner, and yanked it towards himself- the barrel that is- you can see this when they come back into frame- while smashing the man in the head with his fists- and despite evidence to the contrary- many still think arbery was an innocent man just out jogging -doing nothing wrong- I won’t get into that cases here- we’ve been all over that many times before- but i argued for objectivity in that case too- and as the days went on, more and more evidence emerged that showed that he likely wasn’t just out ‘jogging’- but you couldn’t convince many of that despite the emerging evidence-
bu anyways- you wonder why i am not just falling in line and agreeing that a white policeman was a redneck racist who gleefully murdered a blackman in full view of, and knowledge that, peopel filming him? Because it doesn’t make sense- that’s why- and the evidence so far doesn’t in my opinion, support the idea that his airway was crushed or that his neck had a stranglehold on it- I am looking at all the eivenece that shows he had serious heart issues- decided to fight the police with those serious heart issues, and he was on a drug known for stopping breathing- And because some of the things Baden was arguing do not seem to fit what happened at all
[[In my mind, it looks like whitewash to get a lesser conviction for Derek Chauvin. ]]
that again is opinion- and that’s fine- I doubt that is the case- because it is the state that did the autopsy knowing full well the prosecution is going to pick everything to pieces if they can- because that’s their job- IF it is a state run coverup- the prosecution will expose that quickly-
sorry for the long post above- didn’t realize it was that long- but some important points needed to be clarified-
Dang sorry- one more very important key point (And why i am arguing for objectivity as i do)- to get a murder conviction, (Depending on which murder decision you charge with), you have to prove ‘intent to cause death’
I personally don’t believe he intended to cause death, especially knowing full well he was on tape- (But this is just my opinion- not fact)
Many people do believe he ‘intended to kill george’ - I don’t for several reason I’ve outlined in previous posts-
Gross negligence? Yes, Negligent homicide? Perhaps- Depraved indifference to life? Possibly, but That’s going to be a hard thing to prove in court because you have to show intent to cause death if you go for certain murder charges- I think he made a very very poor choice to wait for the ambulance to get there before he took knee off- but to say he had ‘intent to murder’ is a stretch in my opinion, knowing what has come out since it happen (Subject to change of course), - and will be hard to prove- I believe-
k- too much to read through i know- sorry- but this last point is a very very important point- and will play heavily in the court case-