Posted on 06/01/2020 3:56:31 PM PDT by ConservativeInPA
Just in ... 82nd to be deployed to DC tonight. This is more than MPs. A family member of mine will be on the line.
I agree, but if you think that those troopers were better than those of today, you would be wrong. Many troopers of that era were draftees and druggies. Vietnam had destroyed the NCO Corps. The good news is that when faced with a real mission, they stepped up to the plate and got the job done. Good soldiers when the bullets were flying.
I know your original statement, but made my for those who might think that “look cool” means that they should actually do it. ;)
I am not trying to bust your chops. We don’t post unit and movement info online because a lot of eyes look for that info not just the rioters and their handlers. Don’t worry about it, probably not a huge deal in this case and I am certain you had nothing but good intentions. We all hope and pray for their safety and success in the mission. Special prayers for your relative !!
Yeah, it’s not 1861.
Please understand our laws have been “adjusted” to suppress us. It works “for” us this week. Next week? Not so much.
They are burning the wrong buildings. They need to move up the Street in DC.
Superseded by the Insurrection Act.
You can't keep an eye on everyone, all the time. Besides, as a Platoon Leader, I wasn't about to tell a Platoon Sergeant how he needed to allocate his time. Good for him.
Actually the 82d Airborne folks who went to DC in 1968 had a high number of combat veterans in it. I believe they had returned from Vietnam in the previous 6 months. I recommend the chapters about the 1968 riots in this Army History that I was involved in researching.
Dr. Paul J. Scheips,
The Role of Federal Military Forces in Domestic Disorders, 1945-1992 [30-20] https://history.army.mil/catalog/pubs/30/30-20.html
https://history.army.mil/html/books/030/30-15-1/CMH_Pub_30-15-1.pdf
It would be awesome if they did a night jump into the city.
Were you the first to announce this, or was it already announced through official channels?
I think he was a Spec 4 or buck Sgt at the time. He was my platoon sergeant in 1979.
Gotcha. I was 82nd in the 70’s, Carter’s army. Ill equipped and always under strength. That said, still the best QRF outfit in the military, hands down.18 hours notice, wheels up to anywhere on the planet. Just have to wait and see how they will be equipped.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
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The short answer is yes, under limited certain circumstances. The long answer is described below. However, the question is, have they been authorized by the President to do so with this deployment?
U.S Constitution - Article 4, Section 4:
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence. (Note: Pelosi says the House can not be convened due to Wuhan-19)
The US Army on the Mexican Border: 1845 - 1933 (more than 50 years after the Posse Comitatus Act.)
The US Army on the Mexican Border: A Historical Perspective
Between 1846 and the early decades of the 20th century (prior to 1920), the US Army carried out its security missions under a variety of hardships imposed by the massive length and ruggedness of the border. The shortage of soldiers to police the new and oft-disputed border also proved especially problematic....
By spring 1919, approximately 18,500 US Army soldiers (6,000 cavalry, 8,500 infantry, and 4,000 artillery) were positioned either on the border or within easy striking distance.
From 1918 until 1933, the border was guarded by African-American cavalry and infantry regiments known as Buffalo Soldiers.
The 10th Cavalry Buffalo Soldiers were assigned the mission of guarding the United States- Mexico border during World War I, and companies were stationed at Nogales, Arivaca, and Lochiel. Tensions rose on the border at Nogales in 1918, when rumors spread about German “agents provocateurs” operating in the area, providing military training to Mexican soldiers. On 27 August 1918, a Mexican citizen crossing at the border station from the American side refused to stop for questioning. When a U.S Customs agent and a soldier of the 35th Infantry chased after him, shots were fired and the situation quickly escalated into a battle between regular troops and civilians on both sides. By the time it was over, three troops of the 10th Cavalry and three companies of the 35th Infantry were involved in what became known as the Battle of Ambos Nogales. Three days after the battle, more than 2,000 troops of the all- black 25th Infantry arrived to provide additional protection....
After World War I, all army posts in Arizona were closed except Fort Apache and Fort Huachuca, while limited border patrol operations continued at Camp Little and Camp Newell. Camp Little, which had become very important to the economy of Nogales, was finally closed in January 1933
Prior to 1878 - U.S. Military Used As A Posse Comitatus
Prior to 1878, the U.S. military was used extensively as a posse comitatus to enforce various laws as diverse as the Fugitive Slave Act and Reconstruction-era la ws. Over time, the authority level necessary for local law enforcement to call on the military as a posse comitatus devolved down to the lowest level. For several reasons (e.g., the Army’s increasingly vocal objection to “commandeering of its troops” and Southerners’ complaints that the Northern-based Federal military was unfairly enforcin g laws against them), Congress sought to terminate the prevalent use of Federal Soldiers in civilian law enforcem ent roles. Accordingly, Congress passed the PCA in 1878 as a rider to an Army Appropriations Act, limiting the circumstances under which the Army could be used as a posse comitatus to “execute the laws.”To Whom the Posse Comitatus Act (PCA) Applies.
1. Active duty personnel in the Army and Air Force.
a. Most courts interpreting the Posse Comitatus Act have refused to extend its terms to the Navy and Marine Corps (United States v. Yunis, 924 F.2d 1086 (D.C. Cir. 1991); United States v. Roberts, 779 F.2d 565 (9th Cir. 1986),cert. denied, 479 U.S. 839 (1986); United States v. Mendoza-Cecelia, 736 F.2d. 1467 (11th Cir. 1992); United States v. Acosta-Cartegena, 128 F. Supp. 2d 69 (D.P.R. 2000)).
b. In 10 U.S.C. § 375, Congress directed the forbidding direct participation “by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity.” These regulations appear in DoDI 3025.21. Therefore, the proscription against direct participation in civilian law enforcement activities by active duty military members has been extended by regulation to the Navy and Marine Corps. However, SECDEF and the Secretary of the Navy (SECNAV) may still grant exceptions to this proscription on a case-by-case basis (DoDI 3025.21).
Posse Comitatus Act: 1878
Congress finds the following:http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title6-section466&num=0&edition=prelim(1) Section 1385 of title 18 (commonly known as the "Posse Comitatus Act") prohibits the use of the Armed Forces as a posse comitatus to execute the laws except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress.
(2) Enacted in 1878, the Posse Comitatus Act was expressly intended to prevent United States Marshals, on their own initiative, from calling on the Army for assistance in enforcing Federal law.
(3) The Posse Comitatus Act has served the Nation well in limiting the use of the Armed Forces to enforce the law.
(4) Nevertheless, by its express terms, the Posse Comitatus Act is not a complete barrier to the use of the Armed Forces for a range of domestic purposes, including law enforcement functions, when the use of the Armed Forces is authorized by Act of Congress or the President determines that the use of the Armed Forces is required to fulfill the President's obligations under the Constitution to respond promptly in time of war, insurrection, or other serious emergency.
(5) Existing laws, including chapter 15 of title 10 (commonly known as the "Insurrection Act"), and the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5121 et seq.), grant the President broad powers that may be invoked in the event of domestic emergencies, including an attack against the Nation using weapons of mass destruction, and these laws specifically authorize the President to use the Armed Forces to help restore public order.
When the Act Does Not Apply
"Constitutional Exceptions: The Posse Comitatus Act does not apply "in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution," 18 U.S.C. § 1385."
...
Military Coverage
Navy and Marines. The Posse Comitatus Act proscribes use of the Army or the Air Force to execute the law. It says nothing about the Navy, the Marine Corps, the Coast Guard, or the National Guard. The courts have generally held that the Posse Comitatus Act by itself does not apply to the Navy or the Marine Corps. They maintain, however, that those forces are covered by similarly confining administrative and legislative supplements, which appear in the Department of Defense (DoD) Directive." (10 U.S.C. § 375)
10 U.S.C. § 375
"Sec. 375. Restriction on direct participation by military personnel The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law. (See below)"
http://policy.defense.gov/portals/11/Documents/hdasa/references/10_USC_375.pdf
10 U.S. Code CHAPTER 13—INSURRECTION
10 U.S. Code §?252.Use of militia and armed forces to enforce Federal authority
Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, combinations, or assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any State by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to enforce those laws or to suppress the rebellion.
10 U.S. Code §?253.Interference with State and Federal law
The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it—(1)so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or
(2)opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.
In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.
Only if you want most of them to end up with numerous broken bones. And unit dropped at night into DC would be rendered combat ineffective due to landing on the many buildings there.
Certainly, also true in 1969. A draftee could go through Basic/AIT, Airborne School, and Vietnam and still have between 4-6 months still left when they returned from RVN. I was a no CIB 2LT amongst a bunch of combat veterans. The Army noticed and made sure that I got one.
**Posse commiatus was re-written in the 2006 re-writing of the Insurrection act.**
That would be the Enforcement Act of 2006. It was repealed in 2007.
Thank your for those links for later. I seem to recall reading (I was only 8 at the time) that they had machine gun nests with .50 cal set up at various intersections around DC. Am I remembering correctly - or is that just a rumor?
Or - perhaps just sand bag bunkers for security - but no machine guns.
82d was deployed for Katrina"
It would sure seem it has been resolved. He's going to use his legal & Constitutional powers. Just hope his order includes arrest and not just standing in a line.
+1
LOL!! Yeah, they'll do that! CIB 2006
He must have been a real stud. Most Pentagon secretaries held out for at least a Major. A friend Cavalry Squadron Commander divorced his first wife and married the sweetie in his Pentagon office. Her first experience with the real Army was as the Wife of the Squadron Commander. Later, when he was a two-star, he dumped her for a CNN babe. She called me to cry on my shoulder. I asked her what she expected, she had done the same thing the last time around.
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