Second autopsy says George Floyd was asphyxiated

Minneapolis Star Tribune ^ | 6/1/2020 | Paul Walsh and Liz Navratil

[marktwain]

Tell me more about Floyd never being in the patrol car. That’s the factual issue.

You are misreading what he wrote.

He wrote that Floyd was never *secured* in the patrol car, a crucial difference.

[snarkytart]

The terrorist groups aren’t protesting anything
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/

okay so ANTIFA isn’t rioting?

LOL okay

[snarkytart]

Congress shall make no law … abridging … the right of the people peaceably to assemble
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/

WHERE ARE YOU SEEING PEACEFUL PROTESTS???

[Thud]

Good point. ncalburt may be correct, in which case I'm wrong about Floyd's removal from the car.

"You are misreading what he wrote.

He wrote that Floyd was never *secured* in the patrol car, a crucial difference."

[SE Mom]

....”The compressive pressure of the neck and back are not seen at autopsy because the pressure has been released by the time the body comes to the medical examiner’s office”....

---

Then exactly how does Dr. Baden know?
I’m not clear yet on the cause, but Baden seems to be telling me- believe it cause I say so...

It is hard to trust either report.

[bort]

Fentanyl itself causes cardiac arrest, which is the cause of death. My question is: does the medical examiner believe with 100% certainty that the officers conduct contributed to the cardiac arrest?

I put zero stock in the “independent” autopsy by the Floyd familiy’s hired gun.

[South Dakota]

I believe he said Michael Brown showed no signs of a struggle

[snarkytart]

right he’s a lying shill for hire.

[snarkytart]

Fentanyl itself causes cardiac arrest
/
/

Yes it’s very dangerous.

[Valpal1]

Try this one. It’s much lengthier and technical from 2004

http://charlydmiller.com/RA/restrasphyx01.html

[marktwain]

Thanks for the link, but you are sending me to an article 15 years old, when the original link(2019) had people saying what was being represented was outdated?

[Valpal1]

Also, apparently Dr. Donald Reay disagrees with people who say he “recanted”.

https://charlydmiller.com/LIB/reaysdiego.html

[marktwain]

Here is a link to the rather leftist wikipedia. It appears the theory is rather controversial, and not replicated in the lab.

The rebuttal to that is it only seems to happen after prolonged, violent resistance, which is hard to replicate in the lab. Here is a quote:

Almost all subjects who have died during restraint have engaged in extreme levels of physical resistance against the restraint for a prolonged period of time.

[Valpal1]

In order for a Medical Examiner (or Forensic Pathologist) to pronounce someone dead due to "POSITIONAL ASPHYXIA" (whether or not the positional asphyxia death is restraint-related), ALL of the following THREE key elements MUST BE SUBSTANTIATED during an AUTOPSY INVESTIGATION:(2,12-15)

(1) ALL other causes of death – natural and unnatural, medical and traumatic – must be explored by autopsy and EXCLUDED, to within a reasonable degree of medical certainty. In other words; if the victim's autopsy identifies a strongly-probable natural or unnatural, medical or traumatic cause of death (apart from asphyxia), THAT pathological evidence should be considered indicative of the "cause" of death – not positional asphyxia. In fact, it is only when there is no clearly apparent "cause of death" found at autopsy that a medical examiner is prompted (required) to more-closely examine the activities and events surrounding the actual TIME OF DEATH, in order to determine the factual CAUSE of death.(2,16-18)

(2) Upon investigation of the activities surrounding the time of death; AT the Time Of Death the victim must have been in a position readily-recognized as one that could have interfered with his ability to BREATHE. BTW: The "Time Of Death" position that the medical examiner must investigate is the position the Victim was in at the moment when his breathing or pulse was FIRST noticed to have stopped – NOT the position the Victim was in at the time that all prehospital and/or inhospital resuscitation efforts were determined to have failed, and he was "PRONOUNCED" dead. "ASPHYXIATING" POSITIONS RANGE FROM
▪ a position that obstructs the mouth and nose ("upper airway"); or
▪ a position that causes hyperflexion (extreme bending-forward) of the neck, so as to obstruct the trachea (the largest "lower airway" passage); or
▪ a position that causes restriction of the chest or diaphragm – a position that impedes or prevents the MECHANICAL means of breathing;
▪ OR a combination of any of the above-described asphyxiating positions.

(3) LASTLY: The inability of the Victim to ESCAPE the asphyxiating position must be explained. Clinical asphyxia studies have shown that airway obstruction causes a variable period of physically-forceful muscular hyperactivity and reposition attempts, while the CONSCIOUS Victim struggles to alleviate or escape the position that is interfering with his breathing. If the victim is unable to regain the ability to breathe, he rapidly becomes UNCONSCIOUS. Once UNCONSCIOUSNESS ensues, a portion of the Victim's brain INVOLUNTARY cues his body to continue performing muscular activity, in an unconscious effort to alleviate or escape the position that is interfering with breathing. Thus, the Victim's muscular "struggle" does not stop even after loss of consciousness occurs. In fact, struggle to alleviate or escape the position that is interfering with breathing does not STOP until after the Victim's PULSE STOPS!(19)

Page 6 of this document. http://charlydmiller.com/LIB06/2004RASKparts1&2.pdf

[Valpal1]

One of the reasons that it can’t be replicated in the lab is because they experiment on healthy individuals, not persons with excited delirium from medical issues or drugs which would be dangerous, unethical and most likely illegal.

What goes on in a lab is an imperfect model of what happens on the street.

[SE Mom]

Fascinating, thank you. That seems to lean toward Baden’ COD. But it’s interesting the ME found evidence of coronary disease while Baden seems quite dismissive of it saying there was no underlying issues that might cause death- he stated Floyd otherwise healthy.

[Valpal1]

I am just going to guess the Hennepin ME has more expertise in fatal gunshot and knife wounds than he does in positional restraint asphyxia.

Baden, because he now works in the expert testimony business will be far more versed in current medical and legal issues of things like this that result in lawsuits every time it happens (because it’s not supposed to happen). And there is in fact a lot of evidence and research on the subject for him to use.

[The Great RJ]

What not COVID ...I’m shocked

[mosesdapoet]

Earlier posting had him acting up while in squad car
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3850368/posts

[marktwain]

Battling experts....

We are seeing a lot of that.

Climate change, Covid 19,

Now Medical examiners...