Posted on 05/22/2020 7:18:05 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Donald Trump was adamant in stating that, if a second wave of the coronavirus hits the United States, he won’t shut the economy down again.
CNBC reported on the president’s visit to a Ford plant in Michigan.
“People say that’s a very distinct possibility, it’s standard,” Trump said when asked about a second wave during a tour of a Ford factory in Michigan.
“We are going to put out the fires. We’re not going to close the country,” Trump said. “We can put out the fires. Whether it is an ember or a flame, we are going to put it out. But we are not closing our country.”
This bug is a persistent little pest. It spreads very easily from person to person, indicating several different ways someone can become infected. And with so many people walking around who have it but don’t know it and don’t feel it, it’s not just going to disappear any time soon.
Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and a member of the White House coronavirus task force, told The Washington Post this week that he has “no doubt” there will be new waves of cases.
“The virus is not going to disappear,” he told Post. “It’s a highly transmissible virus. At any given time, it’s some place or another. As long as that’s the case, there’s a risk of resurgence.”
If it were up to him and the vast majority of public health professionals, the people would be locked in their homes and almost all businesses would be shuttered. It worked in China. It won’t work here.
Trump may want the country to remain open when the second wave of infections arrives, but ultimately, the decisions are the governors’ to make.
(Excerpt) Read more at pjmedia.com ...
Nope...read my links. Science, not opinions.
The people who are paid to plan for this stuff planned accordingly. It wasn’t the planners that sucked. It was all of the bureaucratic fools who would look at their budget requests and slash them. It was the hospital administrators who dug into their PPE stocks during the flu season, thinking they could get it replaced “next quarter.” Oops.
Do we blame the people responsible for preparing when their bosses dismissed them as “dramatic?”
Early on in this I had drinks with some former colleagues in the Emergency Prep field. It was bittersweet—lots of smirking at the managers and administrators who rejected our recommendations, but also a frustration as we saw people in the middle of the mess getting sick and seeing the nursing homes get ravaged.
In America it pretty much boils down to the bottom line. No one wants to spend money on “events” that have less than a 1% chance of happening. Who is to blame for that.
The first wave never really goes away. But it calms down.
The worry about any second wave is a mutation.
The most “famous” second wave was the Spanish Flu. The first wave was in the late spring of 1918. It died down pretty quickly. It came back with a vengeance around Labor Day.
That wave killed a whole bunch of younger-middle aged people.
I am not saying that is going to happen. Just saying it could, and it could appear different.
That's exactly right. In addition ALL hospitals know what to do. There are tons of ventilators and PPE...and testing is so fast now that any outbreak can be quickly traced and contained. It's not like it was 3 months ago. Donald Trump did a great job shutting things down to make sure that there wouldn't be a ton of deaths AND to make sure we're equipped for the future.
“Science, not opinions.“
Nope, just opinions, despite your patent appeal to authority. The climate change alarmists use that same ploy of calling whatever they believe “science”.
Your faith in the bureaucracy is adorable.
[In America it pretty much boils down to the bottom line. No one wants to spend money on “events” that have less than a 1% chance of happening. Who is to blame for that.]
Without the need to admit ER patients who don’t have evidence of ability to pay, you gotta wonder how many hospital financial problems would go away. Seems to me that hospital closures in the face of the addition of tens of millions of people is counter-intuitive, and explicable primarily by the financial pressures imposed by that Reagan-era law. I gotta wonder if it’s one reason so many ER departments are shutting down - one less source of financial strain - just divert potential deadbeats in need of critical care to other hospitals.
LOL...those links either go directly to refereed scientific publications, or contain links to same. And PRECISELY the same rebuttal can be made of those who claim "masks don't work".
The only opinion involved that is my own is that those refereed papers represent accurate science.
The comment I was replying to didn’t have any links
Same thread, later comment. But if not, then here:
Good layman’s summary of the science behind mask-wearing:
A second layman’s article on the science behind mask-wearing:
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200504-coronavirus-what-is-the-best-kind-of-face-mask
Composition of saliva (the microdroplets generated by coughs and sneezes):
https://www.thejpd.org/article/S0022-3913(01)54032-9/fulltext
Size distribution of microdroplets generated by sneezing:
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsif.2013.0560
More about droplets and aerosols:
https://first10em.com/aerosols-droplets-and-airborne-spread/
Still more about droplets and aerosols:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143281/
And still more about droplets and aerosols: I know these things take time but are we talking about weeks, or are we talking about months?
I seriously want to see your results.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143281/
Particle sizes stopped by masks:
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252
Positive pressure face mask:
https://cleanspacetechnology.com/us/cleanspace2/
Ok thanks. Those links are new this thread - you must have posted them on a different one.
You are right that there are elements of science involved with this conversation. What size particles typically result from coughing, sneezing, talking, breathing? How far do they travel? How long can the virus live in them at various temperatures? What particles get blocked by masks of various materials and construction?
But the question of whether masks are effective in responding to a virus goes way beyond the physics of particle transmission and filtration.
There are deep divisions among scientists regarding whether preventing exposure should even be the primary goal. Perhaps we should only wear masks around the very sick and the very old.
Big Pharma’s ability to create an effective vaccine pales by comparison to the human body’s proven ability to create antibodies - and natural immunity. It has allowed us to coexist with millions of potentially deadly microbes through our entire evolution. Exposure to the healthy majority of the population is required to develop natural immunity.
Should we bet on Big Pharma to save us, and artificially block the natural process of building immunity in the population? This is still an open question.
The scientific method is built around questions and assumptions. A real scientist would never be caught uttering Al Gore’s term “settled science.
Leftists like Al Gore always invoke science when trying to force their regulations on the citizens, and anyone who resists is called ignorant.
Let’s not make the same mistake.
Which is precisely why you will never hear me utter that phrase....but....when I see things that absolutely contradict known science, I "will" post the counter data if I have it.
As you say, the development of "herd immunity" is essential in the absence of a vaccine, and we have to do it. Use of masks, distancing, and good hand/face hygiene allow us some degree of control over how fast that happens. For the COVID, we had NO previous data on how it might behave. Now we do. From the newer information, we now know that the COVID "is" wildly contagious, but not nearly as lethal as was first feared, though bad enough.
"In my opinion", I'd like to see a new "mask meme" take root...."if you have cold or flu symptoms, even very slight...wear a mask if you can't stay home". This would save lives just during regular flu season for flu variants we have no vaccines for, and protect vulnerable groups (who should ALSO be wearing masks). Not because the government mandates it, but because it IS "the right thing to do".
“As you say, the development of “herd immunity” is essential in the absence of a vaccine, and we have to do it. ”
Great, but I think you are still missing my point:
Wearing of masks and social distancing among the healthy 85% of the population may actually be counterproductive to the natural process of developing herd immunity.
“...when I see things that absolutely contradict known science...”
The phrase “known science” is no better than “settled science”. Science is all about questioning - there is never a point where scientists stop questioning and say “There, it’s settled....now we know.” If someone is talking like that - he ain’t a scientist.
The jury is out on the matter of natural immunity vs. vaccines - and the anti-vaccine crowd isn’t a bunch of superstitious wackos - there is plenty of science on both sides.
One thing the anti-vaccine side doesn’t have is a profit motive. All the $$$$ incentives are with the pro-vaccine lobby, because you can take out a patent on a vaccine.
No, you're missing mine. Wearing masks and social distancing SLOWS DOWN the development of herd immunity, it doesn't stop it.
"Science is all about questioning - there is never a point where scientists stop questioning and say “There, it’s settled....now we know.” "
True, but incomplete. REAL SCIENCE goes with the best data. The "masks don't work" meme has NO real data that I have seen that was worth the electrons to put it on my screen. The "masks DO work" meme is played out every day in every hospital in the world (and many other places outside hospitals). "I" will go with the best data.
Speaking of masks and science, here is the best science available right now;
Neurosurgeon Says Face Masks Pose Serious Risk to Healthy People
As for the scientific support for the use of face mask, a recent careful examination of the literature, in which 17 of the best studies were analyzed, concluded that, “None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection.” Keep in mind, no studies have been done to demonstrate that either a cloth mask or the N95 mask has any effect on transmission of the COVID-19 virus.
Any recommendations, therefore, have to be based on studies of influenza virus transmission. And, as you have seen, there is no conclusive evidence of their efficiency in controlling flu virus transmission.
Your link has an error and goes nowhere. I suspect it is the same one which keeps getting passed around the net, from a CHINESE researcher at a HONG KONG facility. Do you “really” believe that the ChiComs aren’t capable of facilitating a fake study???
“No, you’re missing mine. Wearing masks and social distancing SLOWS DOWN the development of herd immunity, it doesn’t stop it.”
Why on earth would you want to slow down herd immunity?
Working link with references.
Because rushing things kills people.
All I see there is a bunch of discussion posts...no article, no science, not a damned thing worth reading. Try again.
Bizarre, I don’t know what went wrong. Hope this works.
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